Dynaudio + AfterMarket Sub Question

[gijoewoz]

Blakcard has a good point about adding a DSP while not changing the speakers. Dynaudio makes some good speakers, no doubt, but I've never seen the ones used in the VW's, and it's very possible that they are junk and nowhere near the quality of their non-OEM speakers.

I really don't know. I'd have to see the dyn speakers in person, and ideally give them a listen. A DSP can make any speaker sound better, I just wonder what the limits are for the OEM Dynaudio speakers, and whether or not the improvement from adding a DSP will be worthwhile. If you're interested in a project, and maybe a long term hobby, then add a DSP. If you want to improve your current setup a decent amount and move on, then I'd recommend against it.

Also, I specifically designed a built a slanted box like the one you are planning. I wasn't interested in doing a fiberglass enclosure in the wheel wells because I wanted to port the box, and porting irregular fiberglass boxes is a mess. I thought about the spare tire well, but I've had too many flats to ditch the spare, and I didn't want to raise the floor for a crappy shallow mount sub. The box is easily removable, about 1.6 cu ft tuned to 28hz, for a 10" sub. Hatchbacks are easy to get great bass from, so it's plenty of bass to sound really good

 

[Mk6Mike]

If you are getting after market HU you don't need a line out converter if that's what you mean by LC1... the HU should come with amp pre-outs to connect to the amp If it doesn't... then yes you need something like an Audio Control LC2.

Since you're going with after market HU and Amp.. You won't be using the stock amp any more. (DynAudio) if you truly want to fine tune the sound in your car a dsp will do that. Most have cross overs built in... If you're planning on keeping the stock speakers not sure if you're going to really reap the benefits unless the plan is to upgrade the speakers down the road?

But....I'm in no way an expert on that.

thanks for clearing the air.

but yeah I’m going to be keeping thestock speakers since they are excellent drivers. But I thinks a high pass crossover on the woofer so the sub can take more of the bass load off the door drivers would benefit the system a lot

 

[Mk6Mike]

Blakcard has a good point about adding a DSP while not changing the speakers. Dynaudio makes some good speakers, no doubt, but I've never seen the ones used in the VW's, and it's very possible that they are junk and nowhere near the quality of their non-OEM speakers.

I really don't know. I'd have to see the dyn speakers in person, and ideally give them a listen. A DSP can make any speaker sound better, I just wonder what the limits are for the OEM Dynaudio speakers, and whether or not the improvement from adding a DSP will be worthwhile. If you're interested in a project, and maybe a long term hobby, then add a DSP. If you want to improve your current setup a decent amount and move on, then I'd recommend against it.

Also, I specifically designed a built a slanted box like the one you are planning. I wasn't interested in doing a fiberglass enclosure in the wheel wells because I wanted to port the box, and porting irregular fiberglass boxes is a mess. I thought about the spare tire well, but I've had too many flats to ditch the spare, and I didn't want to raise the floor for a crappy shallow mount sub. The box is easily removable, about 1.6 cu ft tuned to 28hz, for a 10" sub. Hatchbacks are easy to get great bass from, so it's plenty of bass to sound really good

I appreciate the work and time you put into constructing the box.But I’ve already had one with my sub put into it

 

[Blakcard]

thanks for clearing the air.

but yeah I’m going to be keeping thestock speakers since they are excellent drivers. But I thinks a high pass crossover on the woofer so the sub can take more of the bass load off the door drivers would benefit the system a lot

Personally I don't think you're going to need a high pass crossover. If you have a 5 channel amp and dedicated channel for sub you might be over doing it. The stock speakers are good and really come alive with after market decks. When u put them on an amp Wow.

Add a bass knob if you can so you can turn up the volume separately for the sub. If the amp allows for gain and frequency changes... have some one adjust while you're in the drivers seat.

The problem I find is always in the source of the music. Streaming cds or radio never allows me to really tailor the sound..... add in different types of music plus how it's produced and it can really drive u nuts

No matter what though you're on the right track

 

[Mk6Mike]

Personally I don't think you're going to need a high pass crossover. If you have a 5 channel amp and dedicated channel for sub you might be over doing it. The stock speakers are good and really come alive with after market decks. When u put them on an amp Wow.

Add a bass knob if you can so you can turn up the volume separately for the sub. If the amp allows for gain and frequency changes... have some one adjust while you're in the drivers seat.

The problem I find is always in the source of the music. Streaming cds or radio never allows me to really tailor the sound..... add in different types of music plus how it's produced and it can really drive u nuts

No matter what though you're on the right track

I would just like a highpass justso the door woofers wouldn’t be making the bass the sub should be doing. But then again the amp I have will be able to do that. I sent the wrong one before. The one I got was this

https://www.crutchfield.ca/S-X41Awn...44536&awdv=m&awkw=&awmt=b&awnw=g&awug=9001407

my only concern is (while I’ve never actually done this part in the setup of my previous vehicle). When I plug in the speakers to the amp, how do I known it’s mot just going to send a full range signal to thw tweeter and absolutely destroy it.

another thing that I’ll be adding to my system to squeeze out good sound without getting to complicated for me is an Audio Control Overdrive Plus

https://www.crutchfield.ca/p_161OVERDRP/AudioControl-Overdrive-Plus.html?tp=73334

the concept is simple enough for me to understand. The 4 volt rca signal with run through this unit before reaching the amplifier, and all this does is boost the signal to 9.5 volts if I’m correct, preventing as much distortion from a previous weak input.
But yeah I think my biggest question right now is how to connect the speakers (L/R woofers and tweeters) to the amp without blowing the tweeters. Wether that’s because the dsp was controlled by the factory headunit or amp combo.

 

[Mk6Mike]

Also I wouldn't box the sub like how u mentioned.. There are plenty of kits to stash it into the sidewall in the trunk area or get a stealth sub kit where it hides under the rear floor carpet. Some folks have a shallow mount sub or a full blown... but don't give up your trunk space man!

also I understand the concern blakcard.But I do like my decent sized sub boxes. Shallow mounts just dont give me the same excitement that a ported box can for house unit where sub driver has air to work with. And firstly this is a hatch we’re talking about. There’s so much room. And the biggest thing I’ll be carrying in the trunk will either be my bike for when I go trail riding or my snowboard. But since my 3 other friends have already fitted their cars with dual 10” subs then I know I’ll be fine and dandy with a single ported 10”. I just didn’t like the idea of their method of tapping into the rear driver wires. That’s why I wanted to get on the forum and ask for help of how I don’t do that so the door woofers and focus on the midrange. And everyone on here has been awesome so far

 

[gijoewoz]

You can add a capacitor to the tweeter to high pass the signal going to it. There may already be one in the signal path somewhere, but I've never taken apart the Dyn setup. Even if there isn't one, you can add one. I'm going to do some research and see if I can help out some more.

Can you find the wiring harness to the amp, and see the output wires?

 

[gijoewoz]

Here we go:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...r-question&p=76651332&viewfull=1#post76651332

This says there is no cap on the tweeter, and according to the wiring diagram, each channel is run actively from it's own channel.

To make this work you can buy a DSP and run it active, which is by far the best idea. Or, you can put a cap on the tweeter and wire each the tweeters and mids to their own channels. You'll use 4 channels of amplification for the front left and right mids, and front left and right tweets. If you want to run rear speakers you'll need more amp channels.

I wouldn't recommend running the mids and tweets in parallel off of a single channel due to the impedance shown in the link above. In parallel they will under 2 ohms, and not a lot of fullrange amps are happy below 2 ohms. It may be doable because I don't know the nominal impedance of each speaker, but it will be close, and you may send your amp into protect mode when you turn the volume up. Then again, it might be just fine. Either way, you'll be near 2 ohms, so it may or may not work.

 

[Blakcard]

And the biggest thing I’ll be carrying in the trunk will either be my bike for when I go trail riding or my snowboard.

You in BC?

 

[Mk6Mike]

Here we go:
https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthr...r-question&p=76651332&viewfull=1#post76651332

This says there is no cap on the tweeter, and according to the wiring diagram, each channel is run actively from it's own channel.

To make this work you can buy a DSP and run it active, which is by far the best idea. Or, you can put a cap on the tweeter and wire each the tweeters and mids to their own channels. You'll use 4 channels of amplification for the front left and right mids, and front left and right tweets. If you want to run rear speakers you'll need more amp channels.

I wouldn't recommend running the mids and tweets in parallel off of a single channel due to the impedance shown in the link above. In parallel they will under 2 ohms, and not a lot of fullrange amps are happy below 2 ohms. It may be doable because I don't know the nominal impedance of each speaker, but it will be close, and you may send your amp into protect mode when you turn the volume up. Then again, it might be just fine. Either way, you'll be near 2 ohms, so it may or may not work.

what is running active?

 

[Mk6Mike]

You in BC?

Afraid not

 

[gijoewoz]

what is running active?

An active system (as opposed to a passive system) is when each speaker is run off it's own amp channel. The benefits are that you have independent control over each speaker, as opposed to just having control over a set of speakers. In order to run active you need crossovers for each channel, this means a high pass filter for the tweeters, a bandpass filter for the mids (a bandpass made by using both a low pass filter, and a high pass filter), and a low pass filter for the sub.

It sounds like the Dynaudio setup is active, so the amp controls the crossovers, and each speaker is wired directly to each channel. A passive setup has a crossover (the little box that comes with component speakers) that uses resistors, capacitors, and inductors to create these filters. Good passive crossovers sound really good, but they aren't very customizable, you can attenuate the tweeter if it's too loud, but you can't change the crossover frequencies, or slopes, those are determined by the electrical components used in the crossover. An active system lets you use a crossover point and slope that works better for a particular speaker, mounting location, or sound preference. An active system usually contains digital time alignment for each speaker as well. Time alignment delays the speakers that are closer to you by just enough time to allow the sound from the furthest speakers to get a head start so that all of the sound reaches the listener at the same time. This really helps to keep the stereo illusions like imaging and staging intact.

At the level play, active setups are pretty much a requirement to get a really good stereo, but some people don't care enough about the stereo illusions to be willing to spend the time and money to do it well.

 

[Mk6Mike]

An active system (as opposed to a passive system) is when each speaker is run off it's own amp channel. The benefits are that you have independent control over each speaker, as opposed to just having control over a set of speakers. In order to run active you need crossovers for each channel, this means a high pass filter for the tweeters, a bandpass filter for the mids (a bandpass made by using both a low pass filter, and a high pass filter), and a low pass filter for the sub.

It sounds like the Dynaudio setup is active, so the amp controls the crossovers, and each speaker is wired directly to each channel. A passive setup has a crossover (the little box that comes with component speakers) that uses resistors, capacitors, and inductors to create these filters. Good passive crossovers sound really good, but they aren't very customizable, you can attenuate the tweeter if it's too loud, but you can't change the crossover frequencies, or slopes, those are determined by the electrical components used in the crossover. An active system lets you use a crossover point and slope that works better for a particular speaker, mounting location, or sound preference. An active system usually contains digital time alignment for each speaker as well. Time alignment delays the speakers that are closer to you by just enough time to allow the sound from the furthest speakers to get a head start so that all of the sound reaches the listener at the same time. This really helps to keep the stereo illusions like imaging and staging intact.

At the level play, active setups are pretty much a requirement to get a really good stereo, but some people don't care enough about the stereo illusions to be willing to spend the time and money to do it well.

thanks for the info! So moving forward with this system since I’ll be bypassing the amp/dsp and going from and AfterMarket headunit to an amp. Should I get a dsp just to save some crossover/power handling hassle and let a audio shop tune it?

 

[Mk6Mike]

thanks for the info! So moving forward with this system since I’ll be bypassing the amp/dsp and going from and AfterMarket headunit to an amp. Should I get a dsp just to save some crossover/power handling hassle and let a audio shop tune it?

Is this a good dsp?

Cadence DSP4.8 8-Channel Cirrus Logic Powered 32-Bit Core/192kHz Digital Signal Processor https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01M1HMVJH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tgJXEbFRZ660N

I guess what a good dsp in my view is simply being able to power the whole speaker system. Not looking for anything fancy since if I considered time alignment I could go through the headunit: which I’ve decided on thw Pioneer DMH-1500 NEX

https://www.crutchfield.ca/p_130DM1500/Pioneer-DMH-1500NEX.html

 

[Mk6Mike]

Is this a good dsp?

Cadence DSP4.8 8-Channel Cirrus Logic Powered 32-Bit Core/192kHz Digital Signal Processor https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01M1HMVJH/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_tgJXEbFRZ660N

I guess what a good dsp in my view is simply being able to power the whole speaker system. Not looking for anything fancy since if I considered time alignment I could go through the headunit: which I’ve decided on thw Pioneer DMH-1500 NEX

https://www.crutchfield.ca/p_130DM1500/Pioneer-DMH-1500NEX.html

or actually this one?

Rockford Fosgate DSR1 8-Channel Signal Processor w/ iDatalink Maestro Module https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B076CY59YX/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_1wJXEb9CN4JQD