About to try autocross for the first time

[aricolton]

Hi,

I have had my GTI for a few months now and I am really enjoying it. I signed up for an autocross event this weekend and have a few quick questions.

My car has APR stage 1 tune, but is otherwise completely stock. It is running on Coni DWS tires (I know they are not ideal, but they are all I have right now).

I have read a lot about changing the tire pressure for Autocross, especially with the all season tires. What pressure would be optimal with my tires and the fact that I have zero experience? Also, if I get the pressure right, how much tire wear should I expect from a single autocross event?

Other than that, I am really looking forward to it and hope it all goes well.

Any other helpful hints would also be appreciated.

Thanks for the help!

 

[RacingManiac]

First I would switch it back to stock tune. You won't use the extra power, and infact it might make everything worse, so just run stock tune and in "G-Street" class and you'll be fine...

Just listen to how little time you can actually be on power...



2nd I would not worry about the "right" pressure, as you won't know what it is and you won't find it in your first event, and ultimately it won't matter as you are running on A/S tire. On relatively soft sidewall A/S tires, you probably want the pressure up a bit to get a bit better response and the expense of a bit of grip, but it might help you reduce some tire abuse. Door jab pressure is 38psi, you can probably run between that and 45psi. If you are feeling adventurous you can get the rear higher than the fronts. But with stock ESP on A/S tire, the limit for intervention is low and that might provoke it. I'd just run 40-42 psi all around and leave it. One thing you can do, now and down the line to help you figureout what pressure to run, is to take a chalk, mark the edge of your tread and a bit into the sidewall on a few spots all around the tire. After a run you can see how much of that chalk has been wear off. If it wore all the way into the sidewall area, you need higher pressure. If you have more room to spare, on the chalk to the sidewall, you can lower the pressure a bit. Compare that front to rear will tell you the balance of the car also. But again, first autoX, I would not worry about this at all...

Tire wear expect to be pretty high, especially because it's A/S tire and if you over drive it you'll really chew them up. The extra sipes and soft tread blocks don't like this kind of abuse usually.

My friend who's been autocrossing for a long time wrote this...quite useful for beginner:

http://strcarrera.blogspot.com/2013/12/autocross-basics-1-what-is-it.html

http://strcarrera.blogspot.com/2014/01/autocross-basics-2-how-to-get-through.html

Those will be more than enough to cover what to pay attention to. But most importantly, have fun!

 

[aricolton]

Thanks for getting back to me. I'll just pump my tires up to about 42 and not worry about messing with it for my first time.

I'm registered to run in the "novice" class, but I don't think I am able to switch my tune to stock mode. The previous owner tuned the car and I have not switched the tune to my name, so APR won't tell me what other programs are installed, so I guess I will just leave it the way it is.

I just read through those two blog posts and they were very helpful, thanks for sharing.

One random question, it might vary from one event to another, but is there somewhere to store things like floormats and junk from your glovebox at the event? Or do I need to leave this stuff at home?

On another note, it sounds like A/S tires are pretty bad for autoX. If I really like the event this weekend and want to go more than a few times a year, it seems like I would need a second set of wheels with summer and/or performance tires. (I go to school in Dallas and we do get occasional below freezing temps and maybe even a little snow, so I do need to keep the all seasons for day to day driving). But I'll worry about that later.

 

[RacingManiac]

Some people bring their competition tires to event to swap it, or do it at home the day before. I autoX on my DD summer tires...so I don't usually bother. I also have winter tires for winter, since I am in Michigan...

I usually just take all the crap out of the car and leave it by my parking spot. Everyone else does the same thing. But obviously you probably don't want to leave your valuable out in plain sight...

This is pretty typical for me...

As to autoX on stage 1, thats probably not going to be a huge problem, but it just means you might have to be a bit more ginger on throttle...

 

[aricolton]

Ok, looks like I can leave most of my stuff in the parking lot.

One more random question: I know it's been discussed quite a bit in other threads, but for a beginner like me, would you recommend putting the DSG into "D" or "S" mode and letting it do its thing, or just putting it in manual and staying in second gear for most (if not all) of the run. The reason I ask is, when I listen to the video posted above, it sounds like once he gets off the line, he stays in 2nd gear for the whole run.

 

[RacingManiac]

Yes, in most autoX you are going to be in 2nd. In DSG its not as much of a penalty if you need to shift to 3rd, if the courses allows(not many courses will), and you don't really have a choice as if it gets to redline it will shift to the next gear(regardless which mode you are in). But in most cases the courses won't be fast enough for that. The issue is sometimes when it gets to 3rd you may or may not realize it. So you might be exiting a tight corner in 3rd and you are out of power(maybe less of a problem at stage 1, lol). Also note that at the end of your throttle travel there is a kick down switch, and if you hit it in the run, it might kick down to first(again, regardless of mode, if it has rev to spare it will do it), and then quickly shift to 2nd again. That might be annoying, so you may want to pay attention to your right foot movement to avoid hitting that.



In this vid in that first tight-ish left hander you can hear the car went to 3rd, and on exit I had to tap the pedal to get it back to 2nd...

Also remember, you can only use "launch control"(or really standing start mode) in S or M mode. In D it won't dump the clutch properly...

 

[Stadpad]

stay away from curbs

 

[aricolton]

Alright, I'll put it in manual mode and keep it in 2nd as much as possible.

Also remember, you can only use "launch control"(or really standing start mode) in S or M mode. In D it won't dump the clutch properly...

Will "launch control" be beneficial with stage 1 and A/S tires? Or will it just spin all the power away? I think know how to use it, but I have never actually tried it, so just to be sure: you turn of the traction control, press the brake all the way down, wait a few seconds, bring the revs up to about 1500-2000 then let go of the brake and go

Also, I assume I want the traction control off, is that correct? Or should I leave it on until I get the hang of things?

Thanks again for all the help, you guys are awesome!:thumbup:

 

[RacingManiac]

The "launch control" in DSG really doesn't control launch, rather it allows you to "launch" the car as if you have some ability to build rev before dumping the clutch. It does not quell wheelspin though. You disable the TCS, then put the transmission in M or S. Press the brake hard, then build up some rev and let go of the brake. Just that simple. In stock mode you can easily light up the tire anything over 2000rpm, even with pretty sticky tire. I usually just launch at around 2k in stock mode. I've never used the launch control in stage 1 before so I don't know how that would do. The torque curve on APR's site looks to be pretty aggressive past 2k, so you might get quite a lot of wheel spin. Try it, if it doesn't work, just roll off the line in the next run.

 

[aricolton]

Ok, I'll try it at a low rpm and see what happens.

Thanks again for all the help, I cant wait for this weekend!

 

[sumakor]

For the first time, certainly the first couple of runs, forget the car setup and going fast and just learn the course and the cone markers. You won't be looking at a track with edges; you'll be looking at a parking lot with hundreds of cones set up in weird patterns. It's not that simple navigating that sea of cones and many people just get lost or take the wrong way around a cone or two.

Secondly, more than half the time in autocross events turns into a social event. Not to knock autocross but for your 10-20 minutes of track time, you get to sit in your car waiting for almost an hour, you get to stand in the sun with a flag and radio fixing cones for over an hour and in big events, there's a whole other hour or two that you're not even doing that. So bring or make some friends or it's going to get boring quick.

 

[aricolton]

So the autocross was yesterday and I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot about the car and had a lot of fun. I got 10 runs and improved quite a bit with each one. The instructor was very helpful. I ended up getting down to 68 seconds a lap (for comparison, my more experienced friend in his modified E36 M3 did it in 60 seconds flat)

By the end of the last run my brakes had faded pretty badly. Today I got in my car and assumed the brakes would be just like they were before the autocross, but they were not. For the first inch or two of the pedal travel they feel a lot softer than it did before, is this something to be worried about? Or is it just due to the fact that I wore the pads down?

Thanks again for all the help!

 

[RacingManiac]

Probably doesn't hurt to bleed the brake, usually you don't get the brake that hot in autoX, but depends on course, driving style and if you get any break between runs, and also how new the brake fluid was. I typically flush my brake at the beginning of the season myself.

Going to track pads will be overkill in most cases for autoX, they do have autoX specific brake compound(Carbotech AX6 is one) but they are pricy and what they are aimed for is sharper initial bite. Going to something a bit more street driven like Hawk HPS or Stoptech Street Performance probably is enough for this use, but I don't think its strictly necessary.

One other things to remember(I think the beginner's guide mentioned) is to not set the handbrake after a run. Brake, while they probably are not hot like maybe after 20 mins track time, they will be hot enough that you have a pad stick on a local spot that it may deposit pad material and giving you vibration on the pedal, or worse warp the rear rotor(and being relatively thing, unvented ones like these, they are more prone to this. And you can boil the fluid locally and giving you bubbles in the system and soft pedal. The same applies too is not to "stand" on a hot brake after you get off the track.

For DSG car I usually leave the car in park after a run, or you can bring a wheel chock to stick under the tire to stop it from rolling. and leave in N.

 

[aricolton]

I remember reading that in the guide and made sure not to use the handbrake after the run - I just left the car in park.

When I need to replace my brake pads, I will probably consider buying high performance street pads like the Hawk or Stoptech.

Other than that I had the car in for it's 40K service a few weeks ago and assume they flushed the brakes then, not sure though.

 

[RacingManiac]

I think brake flush is part of 30k. I am not 100% on that.