Golf R Manual vs DSG 0-60 video

[Gunkata]

A lot of those exotics still come in manuals....

I can't believe this argument never ends, lulz....

 

[McQueen77]

I guess I'm really old fashioned but it's manual or nothing for me. I think the DSG is very impressive technology and definitely blows away a traditional ATX that uses a torque converter, but for me, at least when driving a smaller, sporty car like the GTI, R32 or something, it's got to be a stick. No matter how cool the DSG is, you'll never be able to have the flexibility you have with manual. No clutch to feather to manipulate exactly how much power you want to get out of the engine, when you want it, and you'll never have the same amount of control. I thought the DSG in the GTI anyway, was really cool in a straight line, but in the corners, the downshifts seemed to lag sometimes which I hate and I don't know, its just not as satisfying for me. I know this isn't a manual vs. dsg thread and I'm not at all knocking anyone who rocks the DSG because its a great gearbox, but for me, Ive driven stick for 18 years and I am skilled at it. It is a skill, and its rewarding for me personally to be able to use that skill on a daily basis. I took an extended test drive of the GTI DSG (they let me have it for an afternoon) and it just lacks the control, bottom line. I like having total control of my vehicle at all times. Automatic of any kind bugs me the most around town. People talk about how convenient it is in traffic, but honestly Ive driven manual in LA Traffic for over a decade and I'm fine with. Traffic sucks no matter what, and its not any more enjoyable with 2 pedals. If I was strictly racing or something, I would probably go DSG, but for public roads, for me, theres still no contest. I think there are a small group of people skilled with a stick who opted for DSG for whatever reason, but my assumption, and I could be wrong here, is that a lot of younger guys getting into the GTI or whatever, opted for DSG because they probably can't drive stick very well. I've just met so many young drivers (I'm 33) who either have no interest in driving manual, never learned, or gave up after a short time because they thought it was a drag. You can pick it up pretty quick, but it takes a while for it to become second nature, and takes a little longer to be able to rev match smoothly and pull of the heel & toe maneuvers. Yes, I know "but the DSG rev matches for you". Well great. I guess when my left hip goes out or I have a bad knee, I will look into it. I don't ever think about driving stick, because its second nature to me and I am 'one' with the vehicle. Any time I've ever been in an automatic, it makes me give way too much thought to what the gearbox is doing, since it can never make up its mind and is on a mission to get into the highest gear possible at all times for optimum fuel economy. So you either have to (A) settle for being in 5th gear on a flat surface going 35mph, thus relinquishing some level of control or (B) drive it in 'sport' or (C) shift it manually via paddles or stick, which begs the question, if you're shifting manually all the time via paddles or stick, why didn't you get a manual?

Other benefits are obviously that DSG is new technology and if you plan on keeping the car a long time, you could run into mega expense should it fail. It require more maintenance and fluid changes, while manual, well, you could replace 3 clutches for the price of one ATX or DSG tranny overhaul. And as for gas mileage, I've averaged 26mpg with about 60% city and 40% hwy since getting my GTI and for me, that mileage is fine.

I understand that its a bit of a funny outlook. 10,000 computer sensors all over the car constantly monitoring car's condition: check. Touch screen, ipod compatible stereo: check. NAV: check. Bluetooth compatible: check. 90+ year old Lever and clutch that you have to push in and move around to change gears technology: check. I have friends who give me shit and say "I know that you would prefer to go out in the woods and kill your dinner 'manually', but I'll go to the supermarket. Do you miss the days of no power steering? Do microwaves bother you and do you prefer to cook food over an open flame?" I guess I'm just old fashioned.

On a side note, and this is kind of meaningless because it doesn't matter what other people think and only matter if you are happy with your car, but the other day when I brought the GTI in for the wind noise thing, one of the techs brought the car out to me when I went to pick it up. He pulled up, got out of the car and said "There you go man. All I know is that its nice to see someone driving the GTI with a stick. A manual is a must in this car." I thought that was kind of cool because ultimately, you still get more respect with a manual. I'm not talking about trying to win the respect of some ricer dude in a piece of shit lowered civic with a giant exhaust pipe and LED ground lights, I'm talking general respect from car guys who know cars. Anyway, theres my probably useless 2 cents from a 33 year old dinosaur. Take it or leave it.

Ok rant over. Feel free to bump me to some other thread on here where I am sure this 'debate' is beaten to death..

 

[GunMetalGTI]

A lot of those exotics still come in manuals....

I can't believe this argument never ends, lulz....

General comments.........Love them.......

Ya but the fact that more and more are coming with a DSG is a valid point.....obviously a lot still have manuals. Means nothing.

But yes this argument will never end because its an opinion based debacle.

There is what is technologically and mechanically better.......and then there is what you prefer to drive.

Beyond that you really can't go further with it.

With that said....Happy New Year....and happy modding in 2011

 

[GunMetalGTI]

I guess I'm really old fashioned but it's manual or nothing for me. I think the DSG is very impressive technology and definitely blows away a traditional ATX that uses a torque converter, but for me, at least when driving a smaller, sporty car like the GTI, R32 or something, it's got to be a stick. No matter how cool the DSG is, you'll never be able to have the flexibility you have with manual. No clutch to feather to manipulate exactly how much power you want to get out of the engine, when you want it, and you'll never have the same amount of control. I thought the DSG in the GTI anyway, was really cool in a straight line, but in the corners, the downshifts seemed to lag sometimes which I hate and I don't know, its just not as satisfying for me. I know this isn't a manual vs. dsg thread and I'm not at all knocking anyone who rocks the DSG because its a great gearbox, but for me, Ive driven stick for 18 years and I am skilled at it. It is a skill, and its rewarding for me personally to be able to use that skill on a daily basis. I took an extended test drive of the GTI DSG (they let me have it for an afternoon) and it just lacks the control, bottom line. I like having total control of my vehicle at all times. Automatic of any kind bugs me the most around town. People talk about how convenient it is in traffic, but honestly Ive driven manual in LA Traffic for over a decade and I'm fine with. Traffic sucks no matter what, and its not any more enjoyable with 2 pedals. If I was strictly racing or something, I would probably go DSG, but for public roads, for me, theres still no contest. I think there are a small group of people skilled with a stick who opted for DSG for whatever reason, but my assumption, and I could be wrong here, is that a lot of younger guys getting into the GTI or whatever, opted for DSG because they probably can't drive stick very well. I've just met so many young drivers (I'm 33) who either have no interest in driving manual, never learned, or gave up after a short time because they thought it was a drag. You can pick it up pretty quick, but it takes a while for it to become second nature, and takes a little longer to be able to rev match smoothly and pull of the heel & toe maneuvers. Yes, I know "but the DSG rev matches for you". Well great. I guess when my left hip goes out or I have a bad knee, I will look into it. I don't ever think about driving stick, because its second nature to me and I am 'one' with the vehicle. Any time I've ever been in an automatic, it makes me give way too much thought to what the gearbox is doing, since it can never make up its mind and is on a mission to get into the highest gear possible at all times for optimum fuel economy. So you either have to (A) settle for being in 5th gear on a flat surface going 35mph, thus relinquishing some level of control or (B) drive it in 'sport' or (C) shift it manually via paddles or stick, which begs the question, if you're shifting manually all the time via paddles or stick, why didn't you get a manual?

Other benefits are obviously that DSG is new technology and if you plan on keeping the car a long time, you could run into mega expense should it fail. It require more maintenance and fluid changes, while manual, well, you could replace 3 clutches for the price of one ATX or DSG tranny overhaul. And as for gas mileage, I've averaged 26mpg with about 60% city and 40% hwy since getting my GTI and for me, that mileage is fine.

I understand that its a bit of a funny outlook. 10,000 computer sensors all over the car constantly monitoring car's condition: check. Touch screen, ipod compatible stereo: check. NAV: check. Bluetooth compatible: check. 90+ year old Lever and clutch that you have to push in and move around to change gears technology: check. I have friends who give me shit and say "I know that you would prefer to go out in the woods and kill your dinner 'manually', but I'll go to the supermarket. Do you miss the days of no power steering? Do microwaves bother you and do you prefer to cook food over an open flame?" I guess I'm just old fashioned.

On a side note, and this is kind of meaningless because it doesn't matter what other people think and only matter if you are happy with your car, but the other day when I brought the GTI in for the wind noise thing, one of the techs brought the car out to me when I went to pick it up. He pulled up, got out of the car and said "There you go man. All I know is that its nice to see someone driving the GTI with a stick. A manual is a must in this car." I thought that was kind of cool because ultimately, you still get more respect with a manual. I'm not talking about trying to win the respect of some ricer dude in a piece of shit lowered civic with a giant exhaust pipe and LED ground lights, I'm talking general respect from car guys who know cars. Anyway, theres my probably useless 2 cents from a 33 year old dinosaur. Take it or leave it.

Ok rant over. Feel free to bump me to some other thread on here where I am sure this 'debate' is beaten to death..

Completely agree. I can see where your coming from. Its like I like a stick too but its just not for me when it comes to the DSG. Same with Lord of the Rings.....apparently a great movie...but just not for me. lol.

I drive the dsg in Manual mode a lot now and I think once you get past the nuances and ticks that pretty much any gearbox has, its actually very responsive. I bang through and down gears like crazy in the thing. Nothing is perfect of course but again I see what the manual guys would still like and I think they should always be offered bar none.

 

[269horsesuv]

I really like DSG. It would be nice to have the option to choose the trasnmission you like when buying the R.

 

[GDOGGTI]

"You know you can get a DSG flash that will override those automatic shifts right?"

That remark doesn't reflect your opinion that flashing solves the problem? And doesn't that assume that cost and loss of warranty is a reasonable trade off?

No it doesnt reflect my opinion what so ever. it doesnt assume the cost and loss of warranty is a reasonable trade off either. you are blowing my comment out of proportion. you said this:

We've noticed. Have you noticed that all the track day cars in the group you speak of have a mode which affords the driver total control over when the shift occurs? For sporting applications auto up shift is utterly unacceptable.

The part in bold is the one i was replying to. You were complaining about "auto up shift" and all I said was that you could get rid of it. In no way does that reflect my opinion or any of the stuff you are coming up with.

However, if you can read minds, please teach me how to do it :thumbsup:

 

[Tailwagger]

No it doesnt reflect my opinion what so ever. it doesnt assume the cost and loss of warranty is a reasonable trade off either. you are blowing my comment out of proportion. you said this:



The part in bold is the one i was replying to. You were complaining about "auto up shift" and all I said was that you could get rid of it. In no way does that reflect my opinion or any of the stuff you are coming up with.

However, if you can read minds, please teach me how to do it :thumbsup:

Reading minds? I made a simple statement, which you never even commented on one way or the other, rather you offered a partial solution to a question never even posed. I can't read minds, but I can read. You might not realize it, but writing, "You do know..." or "In case no one has noticed" comes off as pretty snotty. But let's assume this was inadvertent, you're not trying to take us all to school and we'll move on. :thumbsup:

 

[GDOGGTI]

Reading minds? I made a simple statement, which you never even commented on one way or the other, rather you offered a partial solution to a question never even posed. I can't read minds, but I can read. You might not realize it, but writing, "You do know..." or "In case no one has noticed" comes off as pretty snotty. But let's assume this was inadvertent, you're not trying to take us all to school and we'll move on. :thumbsup:

oook dude :w00t:

 

[krische]

Trying to get back on topic, does anyone know why the manual in the video was so slow? Are there other manual R owners out there that can provide numbers?