master water/meth discussion thread

[bart2278]

Another question that I'm still confused about. Is it ok to run meth in the winter? I have read that people in this thread have, but I don't know if they were just using it for cooling, no tune for w/m. It gets cold around these parts, would I turn the meth off for winter and go back to a " winter" tune? At what temps should I start doing that if applicable?

anybody

 

[riceburner]

if you're tuned for it keep running it. if not, can probably take a break, yea?

 

[smanierre]

I'd say depends on what you're using it for. If you only spray post IC/TB for the cooling then you could probably save money by not spraying in the winter as long as you aren't running a tune that relies on it since your IATs will already be lower due to the ambient temperature.

 

[bart2278]

I'd say depends on what you're using it for. If you only spray post IC/TB for the cooling then you could probably save money by not spraying in the winter as long as you aren't running a tune that relies on it since your IATs will already be lower due to the ambient temperature.

I will definitely be tuned for higher octane, so I would keep the tune in the winter I suppose. thanks gents

 

[riceburner]

OK guys the rest of my meth parts are on the way!

Car: APR K04 CAR + Full bolt ons

Basic setup:
2X 225ML Nozzles, one in I.E. T/B Bung, one in BSH throttle pipe bung
250psi snow pump
Controlled by Snow MFU Controller (MAP/MAP)

So the plan, after some reading, is to:
* Dial it in on the current 93 tune to see zero timing retard?
* Get the 100oct tune flashed
* Re-zero out timing retard?

That sound safe? Few questions:
* What other parameters should I watch? MAP? Ideal LTFTs? Ideal AFR? Intake temp reduction I should aim to see?
* Would I see positive timing advance #'s or just zero out?

Thanks everyone for any more pointers, you've all been really helpful!

 

[HYDE161]

OK guys the rest of my meth parts are on the way!

Car: APR K04 CAR + Full bolt ons

Basic setup:
2X 225ML Nozzles, one in I.E. T/B Bung, one in BSH throttle pipe bung
250psi snow pump
Controlled by Snow MFU Controller (MAP/MAP)

So the plan, after some reading, is to:
* Dial it in on the current 93 tune to see zero timing retard?
* Get the 100oct tune flashed
* Re-zero out timing retard?

That sound safe? Few questions:
* What other parameters should I watch? MAP? Ideal LTFTs? Ideal AFR? Intake temp reduction I should aim to see?
* Would I see positive timing advance #'s or just zero out?

Thanks everyone for any more pointers, you've all been really helpful!

Will both jets come on the same time or can you stage them so the throttle body pipe jet comes on first then throttle body plate jet comes on later?

With this setup and methanol quantity (assuming 180psi), you should dial it in until you see zero timing retardation / correction factor. No more though once you see 0’s across the board on a 4th gear 2,000rpm-7,000rpm pull. From there you need to document the pump pressure used and the headroom you have left on the controller setttings, you may or may not have enough to cover a 100 octane tune, especially something as aggressive as APR’s K04 file where I saw 29 degrees of timing. Personally, I would not run the K04 100 octane file without direct port meth for equal dispersion.

In terms of data you should compare MAF values once the 93 octane file is dialed in. Do a pull with meth on then turn meth off and do another pull, compare MAF values to see how much air is displaced by the necessary methanol for 0 CF. Don’t worry about ST/LT trims now, log 02 correction and injector constant. Intake temp reductions can be anywhere from 10+ degrees less than ambient but that will really come from your throttle body jet atomizing through the charge pipe. With 0 CF, you should see a smooth timing curve but remember once you’re dialed in, you’ll need to do several pulls to let the car fully adapt so you can log smoothest timing, 02 correction, injector constant, MAF, etc.

 

[riceburner]

^thanks for the reply!

First off, it sounds like my car is probably pulling some timing right now, and dialing in the meth alone on the 93 tune would add some power, yes?

I have no control over when the jets come on; assuming both automatically turn on at the same time.

The pump is 1amps:220psi actually. The MAFU controller appears to control start/full parameters, with the max being 220 psi when it sees 2.2k hz from the MAF sensor? I'm not the sharpest on deciphering the diagram, here's a link to it if interested:
https://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/60100.htm

So, i'm going to get the torque app to monitor/log... i would need to be logging these parameters:

MAF Values: See what they are without meth, then with, and THEN i will see how much air is being displaced.
That air being displaced will have an effect on the timing correction factor? At this point i should be seeing a lower timing correction factor than without meth?

Logging 02 corrections and injector constant: What #'s would I want to be seeing compared to stock? More, same, less?

Timing curve: Want to see it smoothly going up i think, as in no spikes, does not go down at peak?

Thanks again!

 

[HYDE161]

^thanks for the reply!

First off, it sounds like my car is probably pulling some timing right now, and dialing in the meth alone on the 93 tune would add some power, yes?

I have no control over when the jets come on; assuming both automatically turn on at the same time.

The pump is 1amps:220psi actually. The MAFU controller appears to control start/full parameters, with the max being 220 psi when it sees 2.2k hz from the MAF sensor? I'm not the sharpest on deciphering the diagram, here's a link to it if interested:
https://www.snowperformance.net/product-p/60100.htm

So, i'm going to get the torque app to monitor/log... i would need to be logging these parameters:

MAF Values: See what they are without meth, then with, and THEN i will see how much air is being displaced.
That air being displaced will have an effect on the timing correction factor? At this point i should be seeing a lower timing correction factor than without meth?

Logging 02 corrections and injector constant: What #'s would I want to be seeing compared to stock? More, same, less?

Timing curve: Want to see it smoothly going up i think, as in no spikes, does not go down at peak?

Thanks again!

I don’t know about Snow controllers so I can’t help there.

MAF Values: You want to compare MAF values only to make sure you’re not spraying too much methanol, you only need enough to make sure you’re seeing 0 CF across the board. Spraying too much will displace air in the cylinder with fluid (running richer) and can reduce power.

02 Corrections: you want to see less than -10% to -15%, negative 02 correction means the car is getting aux fueling and is reducing the DI fuel. Again, just a nice to have data point to make sure you’re not spraying too much which I don’t think you will.

Injector constant: Just something to have, adding meth should keep you #’s happy.

Timing curve: From boost onset to the end of the RPM range you just want to see a steady increase in timing values.

Set it all up, test meth, log and we can revisit these questions or answer additional questions.

 

[riceburner]

MAF or MAP sensor used on a SNOW MAFU controller? Which wire to splice into?

Thanks!!

 

[GIACUser]

MAF or MAP sensor used on a SNOW MAFU controller? Which wire to splice into?

Thanks!!

In the install manual it says yellow is the usual wire to look for. That is what I used on my MKV MAF. My understanding is that is would be same wire for MAP which the MAFU can use as well.

 

[riceburner]

Based on some research it turned out to the the blue wire for the mk6. I completed the install! Now however I have no idea what range of voltage our signal wires put out. The controller goes from 1-5.1 volt range. Right now I got it set from 2.5 to 5.1 max.

I'm going to test the system is with the line disconnected at the TB in my garage by tweaking the controller down until it sprays with just the ignition on then set it to a volt higher to start.

Then I'll drive it and log CF and IAT with the pump deacitvated entirely, then try to dial it in a bit... Wish me luck!

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

 

[riceburner]

Well went out and then started to hear a wierd buzzing noise from the back. Pulled over and my car is smoking near the tank. Holy shit I'm gonna have a meth explosion I'm thinking!

There's no indication on the snow upgraded solenoid on what's grounded and what goes to the pump power, being the dumbass I am I just took a shot in the dark and went for it.

Now, the wire atleast in the bay and trunk doesn't look shorted out but I yanked the power to it to be safe. Drove home no smoke no noise so guess im not sure if it's wrong or not? Might wanna try swapping the leads but yeah.

 

[riceburner]

oops nevermind... guess it doesn't matter where the wires go per SNOW's instruction... so I have another problem somewhere.

http://snowperformance.net/v/40060 (C).pdf

no idea what it could be though, but seeing smoke was NOT fun! Smelled electrical to me; I AM running the tubing and the postiive wire behind a heat shield around the j-pipe of the catback; only feasable place i could find to the the stuff.

 

[riceburner]

Got it! I had the power wire of the solenoid on ignition power, not pump /signal power! Fixed that and all is well. Tuned controller so it doesn't get a napkin at partial throttle but does on half/full throttle. No misifring; can't find correction factor in the torque app but am seeing intake air temps drop to close to ambient during a pull at least. I did fail to get what happens during a pull without sorry though.

I failed to get pics if the pump mount, throttle pipe nozzle and others but here's a few pics for now

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[riceburner]

Just letting people know I have an extra SNOW upgraded solenoid for sale, 50 shipped OBO. It's brand new.