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Rebuilding a 2.0 TSI after timing failure *Skies the limit, no budget*

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
Ok, so I’m brand new to the forum, as well as brand new to water cooled VW ownership!

Also, I tried searching and looking for threads on this and there seem to be piece parts, but none that were fully comprehensive except for a “ON A BUDGET” version of this same exact topic.

And, of course, there are plenty of people backing him for doing it cheaply and just as many hating on him for what they deem to be shortcuts.

But let me clarify when I say no budget. I don’t want or need any smart assed replies about a whole new engine or rebuilt one. What I mean is that I don’t want to cut any corners with respect to top end or timing components, and I fully expect to take my own head to a machine shop to replace the bent intake valves as well as deck the surface as well as make sure that the guides and everything else is in order. So, with that being said, I don’t want to just buy a remanufactured head necessarily if it’s more cost effective to just take mine to a decent machine shop, of which there are plenty around me.

So here’s the full and comprehensive list that I’ve come up with, but my issue is that there are so many different variations of these kits as well as suppliers, and of course, different brand names of who made the parts;


Head Bolts
Timing Chains
Timing Chain Guides
Timing Chain Tensioners (updated version)
Lower Timing Chain Cover
Valves
Downpipe Gasket
Downpipe Studs
Downpipe Nuts
Manifold to Head Nuts
Cylinder Head Gasket Set (Reinz)
Fuel Injector Seal Kit
Valve seals
Timing tool
Water pump since I’m already this deep
PCV (yes or no???)
Upgraded intake or inspect for wear first since it’s easily removed and replaced any time?

And I know that there’s also coolant, oil, and sealants as well, but I think I can figure that part out.

The place in this link looks kind of expensive, but fairly comprehensive and all top quality VW stuff and Reinz gaskets. So then I’d just have to purchase the valves separately and I have no idea how to buy valve guides, if required.

Shop Dap

But there are also other kits that come with lifters and rockers and keepers and crap like that, all of which I’m sure isn’t damaged and doesn’t require replacement as well as the fact that I’m sure it’s all lower than OEM quality Chinese knock off crap anyway.

So, I guess I’ve said all of that to say this, within reason, being thorough and complete, but without wasting time or money on lifetime parts and components (obviously ill visually inspect everything anyway) what’s the most comprehensive list of parts that I should replace and who should I buy them from to have decent quality (OEM or better) parts and hopefully never have to revisit this for the rest of the time that I own the vehicle? Thanks in advance guys. It just sucks that this is the way that I’ve decided to break into the GTI MK6 scene. But it is what it is I guess.
 

Joe_Mama

Autocross Champion
Good thread.

My advice is do not take the head to a machine shop. The problem is that when those valves make contact they can deform the head ever so slightly.

A good machine shop can make sure everything is good but at that point it becomes cheaper, easier and quicker to just get a RM head from VW.

You will be one sad panda if you get the head back from the shop, install everything, only to find there are oil leaks because the head is deformed.

Edit:

As for "price not an option" that isn't really applicable here. You either buy the newest revised OEM parts or don't bother doing it.

Example, one dude here just did the same rebuild, everything perfect except he went with a knock off PCV unit. Just that one non OEM part caused constant cyl 4 misfires until he got the OEM version.
 

Joe_Mama

Autocross Champion
Here is a great video btw:

 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
Good thread.

My advice is do not take the head to a machine shop. The problem is that when those valves make contact they can deform the head ever so slightly.

A good machine shop can make sure everything is good but at that point it becomes cheaper, easier and quicker to just get a RM head from VW.

You will be one sad panda if you get the head back from the shop, install everything, only to find there are oil leaks because the head is deformed.

Edit:

As for "price not an option" that isn't really applicable here. You either buy the newest revised OEM parts or don't bother doing it.

Example, one dude here just did the same rebuild, everything perfect except he went with a knock off PCV unit. Just that one non OEM part caused constant cyl 4 misfires until he got the OEM version.
Thanks Joe! Yeah, I figured that I needed all VW parts, but didn’t realize that I needed the are manufactured head over having mine done at a machine shop.

If that’s the case, maybe I’ll just go with this one. Shopdap It’s pricey, but seems to be everything I want and need for the job. So then I’d just be buying whatever else I wanted to do, like maybe the updated intake and definitely a water pump.

Or is there a better place to buy a reman head for a decent price?

And I saw what you were talking about in the, “On a budget”, version of this thread with the PCV issues. That’s just crazy to me on so many levels. Not the least of which being that the PCV on these vehicles is next level compared to what it is on an American made vehicle. Do the PCVs on these also serve as some type of oil catchment or oil catch can type of system?

Thanks again for the info and the response!

Once I decide which way to go I’ll buy the best stuff and try to make this a fairly comprehensive and detailed thread with lots of pictures.

My GTI is in really good shape body wise and interior with 117k miles and I managed to get it for $2k.

Which is honestly still kind of scary. That’s what I explained to the guy when I bought it and offered him way less than what he was asking for. I was like, I’m taking all of the risk and assuming that there was and is nothing else wrong with the car. He was just mostly upset because he had the $2k in the Cobb stage 1 tune, Cobb intake, DKM stage 2 clutch, and R8 coils alone. I told him that I understand and appreciate that, but again, if there’s an issue with the bottom end that I’d probably just end up parting it out to try and make my money back. He was a reasonable young Navy guy and I’m a retired Navy submarine Chief, so he came around to my way of thinking.
 

Thumper

Autocross Champion
I mean, if there's no budget and the car is going to be anything but a DD commuter I'd slap some upgraded valves and valve springs in while you're doing it.

Now, if you buy the pre-assembled kit that increases the price difference of course over rebuilding the one you've got and there are arguments for both ways as Joe mentioned.

Also you mentioned intake manifold and I would say unless you're planning on going bigger turbo or bigger plans I wouldn't worry about it. And if you are planning that then DEFINITELY get upgraded valves and springs obviously.
 

Joe_Mama

Autocross Champion
I was a green side corpsman and submariners are weird. That said welcome aboard Chief.

To answer some more questions:

- Deutsche Auto Parts (shopdap) is by far the best website when you want maintenance kits like this. They always have the most up to date revised part, you never have to worry about double checking which is nice. Don't know where you're located but they ship from North Carolina.

- The price on that rebuild kit is good. Consider that just the parts for a timing job on these cars is $500-600 and you can see it isn't a bad price.

- alternatively you can drive to your local VW dealer and order everything you need. They might even have it in stock so you can get everything instantly. But it will be a little more expensive than ordering it online. Not by much but something to consider.

- don't forget there is a core charge involved in all of this. So doing it through the dealer is a little easier regarding that because you don't have to mail anything back.

- the PCV on these cars integral to keeping the engine running properly. A bad PCV can cause misfires and low boost problems along with oil leaks. Luckily the OEM part is only like $120 and they last quite a few miles.
 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
Here is a great video btw:

I just watched this whole video and I think that it’s definitely the route I’m going to go. So I’ll order my head and timing kit package through them soon. It’s about $3k, but I’ll get $600 back when I ship my head back for the core charge.

So in the end I’ll have about $4500 - $5000 in a car that should be worth around $10k, ish. Sounds like a good deal, but I guess I’ll just have to wait until disassembly to be for sure that there are no other issues.
 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
I was a green side corpsman and submariners are weird. That said welcome aboard Chief.

To answer some more questions:

- Deutsche Auto Parts (shopdap) is by far the best website when you want maintenance kits like this. They always have the most up to date revised part, you never have to worry about double checking which is nice. Don't know where you're located but they ship from North Carolina.

- The price on that rebuild kit is good. Consider that just the parts for a timing job on these cars is $500-600 and you can see it isn't a bad price.

- alternatively you can drive to your local VW dealer and order everything you need. They might even have it in stock so you can get everything instantly. But it will be a little more expensive than ordering it online. Not by much but something to consider.

- don't forget there is a core charge involved in all of this. So doing it through the dealer is a little easier regarding that because you don't have to mail anything back.

- the PCV on these cars integral to keeping the engine running properly. A bad PCV can cause misfires and low boost problems along with oil leaks. Luckily the OEM part is only like $120 and they last quite a few miles.
Submariners are definitely weird, but we’re all weird in the same kind of way! Lol. Thanks for your service

And I only retired about a year ago after 22 years, and now work as a government contractor doing submarine Comms and networking support still. So I’m still surrounded by like minded sub guys at my work as well as when I travel to groom comms suites and boat networks. It’s kind of a boring and nerdy job, but I really like the atmosphere and people.

And I live in Hampton, VA which is right beside Norfolk, VA because there was a lot of work around here for me since there are so many military bases. So shipping from anywhere in NC should get here pretty quickly.

I trust the Shopdap guys and their complete kit a lot more than I trust my ability to order every last piece and part that I’m need from a VW dealership without forgetting or missing things and turning it into a longer more drawn out job and many more trips along with waiting on possible back ordered parts. Plus I’d rather give back to a community like those guys who are constantly putting out great content than to a dealership anyway.

Thanks so much for all of the great info and the replies!!
 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
I mean, if there's no budget and the car is going to be anything but a DD commuter I'd slap some upgraded valves and valve springs in while you're doing it.

Now, if you buy the pre-assembled kit that increases the price difference of course over rebuilding the one you've got and there are arguments for both ways as Joe mentioned.

Also you mentioned intake manifold and I would say unless you're planning on going bigger turbo or bigger plans I wouldn't worry about it. And if you are planning that then DEFINITELY get upgraded valves and springs obviously.
Thanks for the info Thumper! And it’s just going to be a daily driver honestly, to augment the miles and gas prices on my full sized truck. So stock valves and springs are good with me. So, since that’s the case, I’m just going to go the Shopdap route with their complete kit that includes the reman head.

And I guess I’ll just clean up and visually inspect the intake while it’s off and see how it looks. I had just read on here and seen other videos talking about intake manifold failures with respect to the flappers or over extension past the stops. So I was talking about the upgraded factory style intake that addressed those issues. Not a performance style one.
 

Joe_Mama

Autocross Champion
Yeah you're gonna need revised parts on that water pump, manifold and timing tensioner. After that (and of course the head replacement) you should have a reliable daily driver that shouldn't need any serious service until maybe a clutch or battery change.

These cars are actually pretty reliable after you update all the fail-y bits.

Also be sure to call the dealer and see if there is any recall work they may do for free. The manifold for instance is a freebie if you have the old defective one and it craps out.

I also got my water pump replaced for free before failure. So check that out before you order parts!
 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
Yeah you're gonna need revised parts on that water pump, manifold and timing tensioner. After that (and of course the head replacement) you should have a reliable daily driver that shouldn't need any serious service until maybe a clutch or battery change.

These cars are actually pretty reliable after you update all the fail-y bits.
Well the clutch is a DKM stage 2 and doesn’t have many miles on it. The PO put it in himself. I would have serious concerns about that except for the fact that the kit comes with a new flywheel as well. Because I know that a lot of people take the short cut of not having the flywheel machined when changing their clutch.

What’s the deal with the water pump? I looked it up and from what I can find, there’s a plastic housing version one and an aluminum one. Is one the upgraded style and one the old? Or do you just replace whichever one you have with the same type?
 

Joe_Mama

Autocross Champion
The water pump fails in a variety of ways (plastic impeller that breaks) just make sure you get the newest revision part and you'll be fine
 

clgodwin79

Go Kart Newbie
Ok, another question. What’s the best place to find the factory service manual for this vehicle. Electronic or physical format I guess.

I’ll obviously need that for specifics on the job as well as torque specs. Thanks again guys!
 

socal87

Drag Race Newbie
I swear I'm not being a smartass...Why not just get a crate motor?

For the factory service manual, the closest I've seen is a Bentley repair manual. Don't think it covers tearing down the engine, though. There is Erwin, which I believe is paid access...
 
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