Stage 1 tune

[kakiko]

Hello everyone,

So I'm planning on tuning my mk6 that has 119,000 miles and I've never tuned a car before so I'm looking for some recommendations based on your experiences. First of all, I need to mention that it has the DSG transmission and it is almost rebuilt because I changed the clutch and the mechatronic after it broke down at around 115k . Also the car had timing belt failure at around 115K and the engine was almost half rebuilt except for the pistons they are still stock. first question, is it safe to do a tune after all this issues ? will the engine and transmission deliver good results. Also, I'm looking to start with a stage 1 tune so what are your recommendations ?

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

Yes its totally safe. Any of the major tuning companies offer good Stage 1 tunes. A lot folks like Cobb these days due to the AccessPort and ease of tuning and logging etc. at home.

 

[GolNat]

All the way up to K04 is safe.

For DIY tuning I'd consider the following:

Unitronic (This is who I have, very safe and reliable tune)
COBB Accessport (get a Stratified tune cause the COBB base maps are meh)
Integrated Engineering

You will also want a DSG tune.

 

[theclutch]

All the way up to K04 is safe.

For DIY tuning I'd consider the following:
...
COBB Accessport (get a Stratified tune cause the COBB base maps are meh)
...
You will also want a DSG tune.

I have a COBB and experienced and dynoed the "off-the-shelf" (OTS) tune for Stage 1 and Stage 2. I also have the Stratified Stage 1 and Stage 2 Protune. The COBB OTS is more like a "double-meh". Based on what I know now, there is no way in hell that it's good enough. Power-wise, the pecking order goes like this Stock < OTS Stage1 < OTS Stage2 < Stratified Protune Stage 1 < Stratified Protune Stage 2. Yes, the Stratified Protune Stg1 has significantly more power than OTS Stage 2. The Stg 2 Protune was only 15-20 hp more than Stg 1 Protune. I ended up going back to Stg 1 Protune since Stg 2 generated too much heat at the track and, honestly, I couldn't tell the darn difference especially when the engine gets heat soaked.

Lastly, I did not get a DSG tune for any of the above. It's more of a "nice to have" but not mandatory especially for $600 or whatever they charge for it.

 

[kakiko]

All the way up to K04 is safe.

For DIY tuning I'd consider the following:

Unitronic (This is who I have, very safe and reliable tune)
COBB Accessport (get a Stratified tune cause the COBB base maps are meh)
Integrated Engineering

You will also want a DSG tune.

Can you tell me what needs to be done for the Unironic tune you have, is it similar to the COBB tune ( do it yourself tune)or do I have to take the car to a tuner, and do I need to change the air intake. Before, reading your reply I was leaning more toward the COBB accessport because it seemed to me that a lot of people are using it and the company have a solid reputation as well. Regarding the tune that COBB offer of the shelf, I've seen some YouTube videos of people running numbers and they easily gained 60 to 80 HP more.

 

[kakiko]

I have a COBB and experienced and dynoed the "off-the-shelf" (OTS) tune for Stage 1 and Stage 2. I also have the Stratified Stage 1 and Stage 2 Protune. The COBB OTS is more like a "double-meh". Based on what I know now, there is no way in hell that it's good enough. Power-wise, the pecking order goes like this Stock < OTS Stage1 < OTS Stage2 < Stratified Protune Stage 1 < Stratified Protune Stage 2. Yes, the Stratified Protune Stg1 has significantly more power than OTS Stage 2. The Stg 2 Protune was only 15-20 hp more than Stg 1 Protune. I ended up going back to Stg 1 Protune since Stg 2 generated too much heat at the track and, honestly, I couldn't tell the darn difference especially when the engine gets heat soaked.

Lastly, I did not get a DSG tune for any of the above. It's more of a "nice to have" but not mandatory especially for $600 or whatever they charge for it.

Do you know exactly how many HP the engine was producing with the COBB OTS tune for stage 1 and for stratified Protune stage 1. and what is the stratified Protune anyway ? is it some a map that I can upload to the COBB accessport?

 

[GolNat]

Can you tell me what needs to be done for the Unironic tune you have, is it similar to the COBB tune ( do it yourself tune)or do I have to take the car to a tuner, and do I need to change the air intake. Before, reading your reply I was leaning more toward the COBB accessport because it seemed to me that a lot of people are using it and the company have a solid reputation as well. Regarding the tune that COBB offer of the shelf, I've seen some YouTube videos of people running numbers and they easily gained 60 to 80 HP more.

It's a DIY but you need a PC laptop and their flash cable. No you do not need an intake I ran Stage 1+ with just a GFB DV+ and upgraded coil packs with no issues. Unitronic does not require any parts for the tune I just added those things to get more out of it.

COBB has a solid reputation in the Subaru community but are newer to VW. My brother has a COBB for his bugeye WRX and it has been great for him but a VW is not a Subaru. Their base maps are on the weaker side for VW I doubt anyone is making 60-80HP from a COBB map plus those are Stage 2 numbers.

Stratified is a company that makes custom tunes for cars. In order for you to get one of their tunes into the ECU you need a COBB Access Port. Same idea as Unitronic it just uses the AP instead of a laptop. The Accessport can also data log which if you want to send that data to Stratified they can fine tune the file and send you a revised custom tune.

 

[kakiko]

It's a DIY but you need a PC laptop and their flash cable. No you do not need an intake I ran Stage 1+ with just a GFB DV+ and upgraded coil packs with no issues. Unitronic does not require any parts for the tune I just added those things to get more out of it.

COBB has a solid reputation in the Subaru community but are newer to VW. My brother has a COBB for his bugeye WRX and it has been great for him but a VW is not a Subaru. Their base maps are on the weaker side for VW I doubt anyone is making 60-80HP from a COBB map plus those are Stage 2 numbers.

Stratified is a company that makes custom tunes for cars. In order for you to get one of their tunes into the ECU you need a COBB Access Port. Same idea as Unitronic it just uses the AP instead of a laptop. The Accessport can also data log which if you want to send that data to Stratified they can fine tune the file and send you a revised custom tune.

A lot of great information, thanks for clarifying a lot of things. If I want to change to a cold air intake system , will that give optimum results with the tune ? what brand of coils and GFB DV+ you have installed ?

 

[theclutch]

Do you know exactly how many HP the engine was producing with the COBB OTS tune for stage 1 and for stratified Protune stage 1. and what is the stratified Protune anyway ? is it some a map that I can upload to the COBB accessport?

Go buy the COBB Accessport (AP) from Stratifiedauto.com WITH the Protune and a K&N filter. You DO NOT need a cold air intake system unless you want the additional turbo noise. The HP gain with a cold air intake is minimal and you will NOT feel it. You can MEASURE it, however. If someone here in the forums tell you that they can feel the difference with that, they are either full of $%^t or they are simply imagining the gain to justify the expenditure. The only people that can feel these things would be true racecar drivers.

The COBB AP provides you with several OTS tunes for stage 1 and stage 2. It's a great bargain in that sense. But the tunes are "dumbed down" in order to accommodate most cars in varying degrees of engine shape. I.e. - a brand new Mk6 GTI will run better than one with 150k miles since the older one will likely have worn parts, carbon deposits, etc. etc. A Protune will then refine the OTS tune so that it maximizes on the HP potential OF YOUR CAR. So it's specific to your car only. Since your engine was already rebuilt at 115k, I would assume that you would get great results. Once you receive your COBB AP from Stratified, they will send you an initial file to load to your car via the AP. Then they will ask you to take datalogs and email it to them. Based on that, they will send you a new file that you again upload into your AP. They do this about 4 times.

My Protune gave me roughly 280hp/345ft-lbs (245hp-ish and 300ftlbs-ish at the wheels) for Stage 1 with K&N filter. I got the SAME with the COBB cold air intake (CAI). I just saved you $400. Buy me a drink. With the Stage 2, the CAI gave roughly 15 hp. It was not enough for me to keep it since I hated the additional noise. I only want exhaust noise and not turbo/intake noise. With the latter, it makes it sound like there's an air leak somewhere. Not for me, but there are those that like it.

Here's your link. It's $850 USD. If you buy the AP elsewhere and then eventually get it tuned by Stratified, it will cost you more.

http://www.stratifiedauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=209_213&products_id=564

I would also consider Integrated Engineering. But you would then have to use a laptop like the Unitronic. It's very convenient with the AP. If you're a "gadget guy", the AP is the way to go especially with the "gauges", 0 to 60, 1/4 mile, etc. functions.

 

[GolNat]

A lot of great information, thanks for clarifying a lot of things. If I want to change to a cold air intake system , will that give optimum results with the tune ? what brand of coils and GFB DV+ you have installed ?

Intake offers no HP gain at stage 1 levels and just adds induction noise (which I personally love). Stage 2 power increase comes from the down pipe tho most tuners want you to have a CAI for stage 2 power. OEM coil packs that are for an Audi R8. Go Fast Bits makes the DV+ which is a nice addition to the stock DV.

If I was not Unitronic I'd would have gone with Stratified. The AP overs other benefits like theclutch mentioned because it has gauges and can datalog. It is not a replacement for OBD11 or VCDS and since I knew I would be getting one of them also I was not as concerned about data logging.

Also another thing is ethanol blends. If you have them available and want to use them then Stratified is the way to go. Unitronic or IE does not offer blend tunes for the GTI. Not an issue for me as I don't have E85 around me.

 

[Thumper]

You DO NOT need a cold air intake system unless you want the additional turbo noise. The HP gain with a cold air intake is minimal and you will NOT feel it. You can MEASURE it, however. If someone here in the forums tell you that they can feel the difference with that, they are either full of $%^t or they are simply imagining the gain to justify the expenditure. The only people that can feel these things would be true racecar drivers.

LMAO

I did real world logging on the GTI back in the day, I always loved the manufacture claims of "+10HP!!" lol

I ran 35-65 MPH runs to log time to see what the real world results were. I did it stock, I did it with stock intake and a tune, then I did it with the stock file and a Modshack intake and then I did it with the tune and the Modshack.

The intake did statistically nothing without a tune, the difference was so small calling it a margin of error between logging times would be gracious. It was basically nill.

With a tune the intake provided some gains, extremely small gains but gains. Best way to look at it isn't that the intake ADDS horsepower, it just allows the tune to make all the power it should. The factory design is restrictive but with the factory settings the turbo is not being held back by it. Opening up the intake doesn't help because the factory settings don't need the additional flow. Once you up the boost with the tune the turbo needs more air and that's where the intake comes in.

But again.....unless you are tracking lap times to the 10th of a second, an intake no matter what is NOT going to blow your socks off. They do look cool though.

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

The intake is it worth it if you want cool turbo sounds. The full length aluminum ones are pretty loud.

 

[kakiko]

Go buy the COBB Accessport (AP) from Stratifiedauto.com WITH the Protune and a K&N filter. You DO NOT need a cold air intake system unless you want the additional turbo noise. The HP gain with a cold air intake is minimal and you will NOT feel it. You can MEASURE it, however. If someone here in the forums tell you that they can feel the difference with that, they are either full of $%^t or they are simply imagining the gain to justify the expenditure. The only people that can feel these things would be true racecar drivers.

The COBB AP provides you with several OTS tunes for stage 1 and stage 2. It's a great bargain in that sense. But the tunes are "dumbed down" in order to accommodate most cars in varying degrees of engine shape. I.e. - a brand new Mk6 GTI will run better than one with 150k miles since the older one will likely have worn parts, carbon deposits, etc. etc. A Protune will then refine the OTS tune so that it maximizes on the HP potential OF YOUR CAR. So it's specific to your car only. Since your engine was already rebuilt at 115k, I would assume that you would get great results. Once you receive your COBB AP from Stratified, they will send you an initial file to load to your car via the AP. Then they will ask you to take datalogs and email it to them. Based on that, they will send you a new file that you again upload into your AP. They do this about 4 times.

My Protune gave me roughly 280hp/345ft-lbs (245hp-ish and 300ftlbs-ish at the wheels) for Stage 1 with K&N filter. I got the SAME with the COBB cold air intake (CAI). I just saved you $400. Buy me a drink. With the Stage 2, the CAI gave roughly 15 hp. It was not enough for me to keep it since I hated the additional noise. I only want exhaust noise and not turbo/intake noise. With the latter, it makes it sound like there's an air leak somewhere. Not for me, but there are those that like it.

Here's your link. It's $850 USD. If you buy the AP elsewhere and then eventually get it tuned by Stratified, it will cost you more.

http://www.stratifiedauto.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=209_213&products_id=564

I would also consider Integrated Engineering. But you would then have to use a laptop like the Unitronic. It's very convenient with the AP. If you're a "gadget guy", the AP is the way to go especially with the "gauges", 0 to 60, 1/4 mile, etc. functions.

I'm the same like you I don't like the extra turbo noise. I hate the additional air noise, but I think they look cool under the hood. I have an exhaust noise, not too loud type and I'm very satisfied with that. when you push the car a little bit, it starts sounding more aggressive, it is perfect for daily driving.
Thanks for providing me with the link, I think things are very clear now. I'm going to go with the Stratified Pro tune. 245hp and 300ftlbs at the wheels sounds great to me. Its awesome that I can send them the file back and get a tune specifically for my engine. Thank for tip about the air filter.

 

[kakiko]

Intake offers no HP gain at stage 1 levels and just adds induction noise (which I personally love). Stage 2 power increase comes from the down pipe tho most tuners want you to have a CAI for stage 2 power. OEM coil packs that are for an Audi R8. Go Fast Bits makes the DV+ which is a nice addition to the stock DV.

If I was not Unitronic I'd would have gone with Stratified. The AP overs other benefits like theclutch mentioned because it has gauges and can datalog. It is not a replacement for OBD11 or VCDS and since I knew I would be getting one of them also I was not as concerned about data logging.

Also another thing is ethanol blends. If you have them available and want to use them then Stratified is the way to go. Unitronic or IE does not offer blend tunes for the GTI. Not an issue for me as I don't have E85 around me.

I was thinking that CAI, will allow the turbo to not suffer when tuning the car and adding more HP. I was thinking about the longevity of the turbo, Thinking that having more air flow will keep the turbo running smoothly. I was afraid that a tune may mess up the turbo especially that the car has 120K now.

 

[kakiko]

LMAO

I did real world logging on the GTI back in the day, I always loved the manufacture claims of "+10HP!!" lol

I ran 35-65 MPH runs to log time to see what the real world results were. I did it stock, I did it with stock intake and a tune, then I did it with the stock file and a Modshack intake and then I did it with the tune and the Modshack.

The intake did statistically nothing without a tune, the difference was so small calling it a margin of error between logging times would be gracious. It was basically nill.

With a tune the intake provided some gains, extremely small gains but gains. Best way to look at it isn't that the intake ADDS horsepower, it just allows the tune to make all the power it should. The factory design is restrictive but with the factory settings the turbo is not being held back by it. Opening up the intake doesn't help because the factory settings don't need the additional flow. Once you up the boost with the tune the turbo needs more air and that's where the intake comes in.

But again.....unless you are tracking lap times to the 10th of a second, an intake no matter what is NOT going to blow your socks off. They do look cool though.

So for a stage 1 tune keeping the the same air intake system and just upgrading the air filter should be enough to allow the turbo to get that air that it needs ?