Rotaryknight
Go Kart Champion
On the stock turbo it's fine but on K04 there is way more fueling needed.
Hahaha yea.....
My E85 post
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107611
6
Running 100oct or e85
- Thread starter victor247
- Start date
On the stock turbo it's fine but on K04 there is way more fueling needed.
Hahaha yea.....
My E85 post
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107611
I wouldn't run 100oct daily. I just want to run this M5 again and see how I do with 100oct. I love e85! What it did for my 335i, i have non words for. Its not about miles per gallon, but smiles per mile. 
Thanks for the help guys. Ill stay with my current setup and just try one tank for my runs and be done with 100oct.
Thanks for the help guys. Ill stay with my current setup and just try one tank for my runs and be done with 100oct.
I wouldn't run 100oct daily. I just want to run this M5 again and see how I do with 100oct. I love e85! What it did for my 335i, i have non words for. Its not about miles per gallon, but smiles per mile.
Thanks for the help guys. Ill stay with my current setup and just try one tank for my runs and be done with 100oct.
With water methanol you can have many more :happyanim::happyanim: when you can go down the street and fill up for 35$ and have many many many tanks of 100+ octane. I have been running water methanol for years and never had any problems with the system don't be afraid.
x2 I have been running a 100oct tune daily on my MKV K04 for the last 3 years problem free with zero timing pull. Water Methanol is one of the truly magic add-ons when trying to get the most out of a forced induction car and doubly so when you are trying to do it in hot weather.
100oct fuel is of course too expensive to run daily. I prefer to have all the power all the time.
Sorry for deviating from your original question which sort of answers itself. Yes 100octane tune + 100octane fuel does provide more power usually as advertised minus any issues you may have with your car or hot weather.
Well...the "World" is running 100 oct daily, and Stage 1 tunes are 260-270 PS on K03 2.0T...but, it is a game for a precious few in the US...but do not forget that gas is expensive @ the pump in EU, in the tune of $1.7/lt or ~$6.5/US gal.
Still, $8~9/gal or more for 100 Oct in SoCal is literary "Hwy robbery".
/offtopic
---
^This.
It is obvious that 100 Oct is better, but not without a proper tune pushing the engine further. Same with the water-meth injection. Yes, there are small benefits even without a proper tune, but those are marginal.
Unless you have a tune, I doubt it worth's the extra $ to fill "that single tank" to cure your curiosity: if all you have is your normal 91/93 tune, you won't really do much more power than that.
Still, $8~9/gal or more for 100 Oct in SoCal is literary "Hwy robbery".
/offtopic
---
^This.
It is obvious that 100 Oct is better, but not without a proper tune pushing the engine further. Same with the water-meth injection. Yes, there are small benefits even without a proper tune, but those are marginal.
Unless you have a tune, I doubt it worth's the extra $ to fill "that single tank" to cure your curiosity: if all you have is your normal 91/93 tune, you won't really do much more power than that.
I have the 91,93, and 100oct maps from APR with my KO4.
So Meth and 93 should =100 oct and run the 100oct map... I have this right?
I like my car the way it is at the moment(running 93 on 93 map), but never tried the 100oct, so hence the questions.
In my area(western MA) 100oct comes in tubs of 5gal for $69! And not everyone has it. You will never find it from the pump around here.
I have this for my 335i. With a cm10 nozzle.
http://m.ebay.com/itm/Bms-n54-n55-b...lack-tank-methanol-injector-kit-/142058510621
So technically I can run it on the GTI and just get a different controller, right?
Or maybe this kit? What do you guys think?
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107037
I have also the throttle body spacer on the GTI already, installed it when I was installing the ko4.
Last edited:
HYDE161
Go Kart Champion
I'm going to save you a TON of time here. With the APR K04 V3.2, I've tested everything you're asking about here.
100 Octane:
If you run 100 octane on a 93 file you're pissing away money, you will not make any more timing advance anywhere near the 28-29 degrees I saw on the 100 octane file. What you will see (in data) but not really feel is reaching the full requested timing without any correction factor whatsoever. 93 pump (top tier) gas barely has any correction factor so it's still a waste.
If you run 100 octane file, there are a few things to remember. Sealed 5 gallon drums only, in the ground 100 octane is not the same as a sealed 5 gallon drum with guaranteed fresh fuel. Running your 93 tank to low then filling with a sealed 5 gallon (or more) of 100 octane is not 100 octane, it's diluted. It is recommended to drain all 93 fuel from your gas tank from under the car then fill with 100 octane. Finally, after listening to my first recommendation (sealed gas) and maybe listening to my second recommendation (drain), you will need to drive the car around a bit to let the file adapt, do not go WOT right out of the gate. After you add some around town and highway miles you can start opening it up. The last check is to log correction factor with a 3rd gear pull or 4th gear pull from 2,000rpm to 6,500rpm. If you see 0 correction factor, you're good. If you see -1.5 here and there, I wouldn't be concerned. Any more then you have another underlying issue. I have drained my tank of 93, filled with 5 gallon of 100 octane and drove around on the 93 file for safety, filled another 5 gallon of 100 octane and switched to the 100 octane map and started logging to check for no correction factor.
Methanol:
IMO nothing will beat the addition of methanol. I've run 100 octane, ethanol and methanol. Methanol, when properly placed and dialed in, can bring stock turbo, K04 or BT to life. In terms of hardware, I will always recommend Aquamist. Recently, I've recommended Aquamist jets and their additional hardware with the use of other controllers. The pumps are all the same. The Aquamist jets blow away any other jet in terms of quality, built in check valve, built in filter, spray pattern and atomization. I had successfully dialed in an Aquamist HFS-4 controller with 4 direct port jets and one post intercooler jet (tapped in the APR intercooler outlet) to run 100 octane on a daily basis without any correction factor on 93 pump gas for a year. Others have done it with one large throttle body jet but direct port guarantees a more exact distribution to each cylinder. No reason in risking a cylinder to save money on jets. The post intercooler jet will cool the intake charge which will show the IAT sensor a lower intake temp which will advance timing. When the ECU doesn't see any correction factor as advances timing based on IATs, it can further advance it and you'll have the methanol to drive octane to well over 100 octane. Think 110-115 was the number depending on your water to methanol ratio (I run 80% meth).
Ethanol:
On a 93 file, you will not get over an E25-E35 blend (depending on the ethanol content of the E85 at your local pump) without starting to max out the HPFP/injectors. To properly calculate your targeted blend, you should buy an E85 tester off JEGS or Summit. Test the E85 content at your local pump (winter vs. summer blends), download an E85 mix app to help you calculate ratios, make up a batch, fill your empty tank, clear your fuel trims (disconnect battery or VagCom), drive on 5 gallons. The first mix will be about 5%-10% lower than your calculated target. Fill with another 5 gallons of your ethanol blend, by the second or third fill you'll be at your targeted ethanol blend. You'll need to measure long term fuel trims after this testing to see how much fuel it's adding to compensate for ethanol's additional volume requirement (think less fuel mileage). The car should idle and run smoother, acceleration should feel better as well as you increase ethanol content.
Now, if you want to hit E55, which is where I maxed out the HPFP and injectors, you'll need direct port methanol. Sounds crazy right? Gas, ethanol and methanol? By running direct port methanol and turning up the controller for more methanol volume, it offsets the amount of actual gas needed for combustion. This would show the long term fuel trims pulling fuel, thereby creating a margin with the OEM fuel system. It's this margin that allows you to increase your ethanol content up to E55. You reduce gas by addition of methanol to increase gas when ethanol content is added/increased. The goal is to net it all out.
I'm sure I could add a lot more here but I've been meaning to summarize this for a year now in other threads and I finally found the time....
100 Octane:
If you run 100 octane on a 93 file you're pissing away money, you will not make any more timing advance anywhere near the 28-29 degrees I saw on the 100 octane file. What you will see (in data) but not really feel is reaching the full requested timing without any correction factor whatsoever. 93 pump (top tier) gas barely has any correction factor so it's still a waste.
If you run 100 octane file, there are a few things to remember. Sealed 5 gallon drums only, in the ground 100 octane is not the same as a sealed 5 gallon drum with guaranteed fresh fuel. Running your 93 tank to low then filling with a sealed 5 gallon (or more) of 100 octane is not 100 octane, it's diluted. It is recommended to drain all 93 fuel from your gas tank from under the car then fill with 100 octane. Finally, after listening to my first recommendation (sealed gas) and maybe listening to my second recommendation (drain), you will need to drive the car around a bit to let the file adapt, do not go WOT right out of the gate. After you add some around town and highway miles you can start opening it up. The last check is to log correction factor with a 3rd gear pull or 4th gear pull from 2,000rpm to 6,500rpm. If you see 0 correction factor, you're good. If you see -1.5 here and there, I wouldn't be concerned. Any more then you have another underlying issue. I have drained my tank of 93, filled with 5 gallon of 100 octane and drove around on the 93 file for safety, filled another 5 gallon of 100 octane and switched to the 100 octane map and started logging to check for no correction factor.
Methanol:
IMO nothing will beat the addition of methanol. I've run 100 octane, ethanol and methanol. Methanol, when properly placed and dialed in, can bring stock turbo, K04 or BT to life. In terms of hardware, I will always recommend Aquamist. Recently, I've recommended Aquamist jets and their additional hardware with the use of other controllers. The pumps are all the same. The Aquamist jets blow away any other jet in terms of quality, built in check valve, built in filter, spray pattern and atomization. I had successfully dialed in an Aquamist HFS-4 controller with 4 direct port jets and one post intercooler jet (tapped in the APR intercooler outlet) to run 100 octane on a daily basis without any correction factor on 93 pump gas for a year. Others have done it with one large throttle body jet but direct port guarantees a more exact distribution to each cylinder. No reason in risking a cylinder to save money on jets. The post intercooler jet will cool the intake charge which will show the IAT sensor a lower intake temp which will advance timing. When the ECU doesn't see any correction factor as advances timing based on IATs, it can further advance it and you'll have the methanol to drive octane to well over 100 octane. Think 110-115 was the number depending on your water to methanol ratio (I run 80% meth).
Ethanol:
On a 93 file, you will not get over an E25-E35 blend (depending on the ethanol content of the E85 at your local pump) without starting to max out the HPFP/injectors. To properly calculate your targeted blend, you should buy an E85 tester off JEGS or Summit. Test the E85 content at your local pump (winter vs. summer blends), download an E85 mix app to help you calculate ratios, make up a batch, fill your empty tank, clear your fuel trims (disconnect battery or VagCom), drive on 5 gallons. The first mix will be about 5%-10% lower than your calculated target. Fill with another 5 gallons of your ethanol blend, by the second or third fill you'll be at your targeted ethanol blend. You'll need to measure long term fuel trims after this testing to see how much fuel it's adding to compensate for ethanol's additional volume requirement (think less fuel mileage). The car should idle and run smoother, acceleration should feel better as well as you increase ethanol content.
Now, if you want to hit E55, which is where I maxed out the HPFP and injectors, you'll need direct port methanol. Sounds crazy right? Gas, ethanol and methanol? By running direct port methanol and turning up the controller for more methanol volume, it offsets the amount of actual gas needed for combustion. This would show the long term fuel trims pulling fuel, thereby creating a margin with the OEM fuel system. It's this margin that allows you to increase your ethanol content up to E55. You reduce gas by addition of methanol to increase gas when ethanol content is added/increased. The goal is to net it all out.
I'm sure I could add a lot more here but I've been meaning to summarize this for a year now in other threads and I finally found the time....
Last edited:
Wow, this is the most informative post on methanol I have read yet! I'm sold on the Aquamist Kit! I'll get the e85 tester as well.
"you will not get over an E25-E35 blend (depending on the ethanol content of the E85 at your local pump)"
Hyde16 you make me confused with that sentence!
E25 or E35 is always 25 and 35% of pure ethanol. Like E85 is supposed to be 85% of pure ethanol. Isn't it?
It does not depend of how much Ethanol their is in the E85 that day you fill up. It' s up to you to make it E25 or E35.
Or do you mean 25 to 35% of E85 mix with 93 but then that's not E25 to E35!
Best way to always know how much Ethanol % is in your mix is to instal an Ethanol sensor ( from continental or other) on your fuel line from tank, then connect to it an ethanol content reader on the dash. That's what I have on my other car a Toyota GT86. Very convenient.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/332098461880?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml that's the one I have in my Toyota
https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16372&cat=0&page=1 Cheaper than zeitronix
Hyde16 you make me confused with that sentence!
E25 or E35 is always 25 and 35% of pure ethanol. Like E85 is supposed to be 85% of pure ethanol. Isn't it?
It does not depend of how much Ethanol their is in the E85 that day you fill up. It' s up to you to make it E25 or E35.
Or do you mean 25 to 35% of E85 mix with 93 but then that's not E25 to E35!
Best way to always know how much Ethanol % is in your mix is to instal an Ethanol sensor ( from continental or other) on your fuel line from tank, then connect to it an ethanol content reader on the dash. That's what I have on my other car a Toyota GT86. Very convenient.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/332098461880?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml that's the one I have in my Toyota
https://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16372&cat=0&page=1 Cheaper than zeitronix
Last edited:
Rotaryknight
Go Kart Champion
Nope not all e85 is actually 85%. There is usually a disclaimer somewhere on he pump. It can be as low as 65%. Luckily our ECU is more advanced than the subi and eco crowd that adjustment can be made that the car won't blow. But I do know a lot of Evo guys who test fuel and have to avoid certain locations
I know this I drive since 2005 with E85 on My 4 car's and since 4 year I have Ethanol reader on the dash of my GT86:
-GT86 with delicious tuning Flexfuel tune, continental sensor and Zeitronix ethanol reader.
-Audi RS2 two tune ( E85 and 93) with Switch
- VW T5 V6 ( R32 engine) with vortech V9-Gtrim supercharger and Flexfuel tune 550cc injector
- VW T6 TSI ( EA88 Gen 2) E30 stage 2 tune (not tuned for E85 mix)
What I wanted to say above was that it was not clear if he mean E25 to E35 that should be 25 to 35% of pure ethanol or if he mean 25 to 35 % of E85 mix with 93.
The second one could be much less than E25 ( coud be as low as E15) if it's winter E85 that can have sometime only 60% of ethanol mix in rate of 25% E85 ( E60 in real) and 75% 93. I often see 60% on my Ziextronic reader in winter
That's why I think the best is to have an Ethanol sensor and ethanol reader. No more guessing.
This one is also nice and work on your Iphone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEek_bZ_grk
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/fuel-it-ethanol-content/id1004246767?mt=8
http://www.fuel-it.biz/flex-fuel-sensor-with-bluetooth-analyzer/
with the push lock connection super easy to instal near the fuel filter for exemple.
Then you know precisely what E-- you got in your tank
Last edited: