4/10/24 Track Night @ HHR - Stormy attempts a FWD lap record (how will it end?)

[tigeo]

With everything installed that is available before 4/9, I’m likely going to give the HPS 5.0 pads one more go, only because I can’t get EBC pads in time for the event, and they have a stupid long brake in period needed before they truly bed in.

I’ll see how the HPS do with the better fluid and upgraded cooling ducts.

I reiterate that HHR is NOT hard on brakes until you try and track during the summer months when ambient temps are 90+*F and higher.

It has 3 hard brake zones, and they’re spaced fairly far apart relative to the track length, giving the brakes a good 15-20 seconds of cooldown before the next application.

Each time is only 95-105mph down to 45mph, and trail braking is both possible and encouraged for executing turn 4 (the carousel).

Turns 7 and 10 are f**-all hard right handers, 7 being off camber and a bit choppy like the editing in a Marvel movie.

7 and 10 are basically 180* tank slappers.

Anyway, I want to find the safe limits of these pads for one event before the weather gets hotter.

Will likely move to an RPX front and BlueStuff rear combo for May, just to keep the HPS pads on street duty where they belong, and so I can enjoy later braking and faster laps on the race pads.

If anyone is wondering, I’m absolutely bolting the Powerstop Z23s back on there for the off season. Low dust, and they had the same modest bite and progression as the HPS.

HPS 5.0s have treated me well on previous track days, but are underwhelming relative to expectations for higher Mu and better bite.

They did so much better on my customer’s 2017 FoST, but we have different MCs and brake assistance systems, so it’s s to s.

Sharing here in case folks are debating a $60-70 set of front ceramics versus the $120+ Hawk brand.

Neither are appropriate for track work at intermediate levels and above, I know!

But great street pads with manageable dust levels and mostly silent.

RPX and BSNDX both have no break in beyond normal track pads...mate up and a few heat cycles is it...these are nothing like Yellowstuff with a break in coating and arduous instructions.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

RPX and BSNDX both have no break in beyond normal track pads...mate up and a few heat cycles is it...these are nothing like Yellowstuff with a break in coating and arduous instructions.

Then let’s pray the vendors check their email tomorrow and act promptly!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

But as DerHase has show the 3.12s while $$$ will also last much longer than the RPX...however you guys are also in GTIs which are lighter than my awd wagon.

This + my primary tracks are Harris Hill Raceway and eventually MSR Cresson. Neither are hard on brakes compared to a VIR, COTA, Eagles Canyon experience. I call those “big boy tracks”.

Stormy curbs at 3150lbs before my 230lb dad/mechanic bod takes a seat at the wheel…

I fully respect that DS3.12s might last longer on hard circuits. I just don’t want to throw out $800+ for pads when I only get to do 4-5 track days a year.

 

[tigeo]

This + my primary tracks are Harris Hill Raceway and eventually MSR Cresson. Neither are hard on brakes compared to a VIR, COTA, Eagles Canyon experience. I call those “big boy tracks”.

Stormy curbs at 3150lbs before my 230lb dad/mechanic bod takes a seat at the wheel…

I fully respect that DS3.12s might last longer on hard circuits. I just don’t want to throw out $800+ for pads when I only get to do 4-5 track days a year.

Actually....VIR isn't bad at all in terms of number of braking zones (about 4 hard ones and few "scrub speed" ones per lap) but you are going fast so they are few but count hahaha. My car is a few '00 more.

 

[RopeJumper13]

Looking forward to seeing some installation & final results of the 034 S3 springs! Running the same LCA for the last few months, no complaints yet!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Looking forward to seeing some installation & final results of the 034 S3 springs! Running the same LCA for the last few months, no complaints yet!

Thank you! Hopefully the community can benefit from some of the experiments I’m doing on this platform.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

In regards to EBC brake pad bed – in procedures:

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/race-motorsport-articles/bedding-in/

This was sent to me by the tech-support team of buy-brakes.com

They also informed me that the RPX is out of stock for our cars. Total Boner killer!

 

[RopeJumper13]

Thank you! Hopefully the community can benefit from some of the experiments I’m doing on this platform.

After looking into it more, I worry that 034 doesn’t advertise the drop for these appropriately. Most non-mag ride springs advertise another inch for the A3 vs S3. 034 only lists these as a .75” drop, so I’m guessing they left out that the A3 would be more of a 1.75” drop. Since Neuspeed lists their springs as usable between A3 and the GTI with a A3 drop of 1.2”/1.3” and a GTI drop of 1.1”. You’re looking at a possible 1.5-1.6” drop on the 034 springs.

Was hoping these would land in the .5-.6” range when used in a GTI. Maybe the increased spring rate could bring these up a bit.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

After looking into it more, I worry that 034 doesn’t advertise the drop for these appropriately. Most non-mag ride springs advertise another inch for the A3 vs S3. 034 only lists these as a .75” drop, so I’m guessing they left out that the A3 would be more of a 1.75” drop. Since Neuspeed lists their springs as usable between A3 and the GTI with a A3 drop of 1.2”/1.3” and a GTI drop of 1.1”. You’re looking at a possible 1.5-1.6” drop on the 034 springs.

Was hoping these would land in the .5-.6” range when used in a GTI. Maybe the increased spring rate could bring these up a bit.

Not true in the case of the S3 springs.

The S3 sits like a 4x4 from the factory. The 034 springs also have substantially higher spring rates than the typical GTI offerings.

Let’s use the Golf R linear Eibachs for example (have a set on the box still):

~177lb/in front, 270lb/in rear
Total drop on the lighter GTI is about 20mm. Full inch on the 3350lb (Golf R)

S3 034 springs: 310lb/in front, 400lb/in rears.

Use this pic of an actual S3 (3450lbs) with these exact springs. Crunch the numbers.

Stormy is a 3150lb GTI. That 300lb delta comes to about 100lbs on the front of the car and 200lbs out back. It’s the Quattro TC up front, then the DS, rear diff and CV axles.

My car should sit about 8mm higher yo front and 10mm higher in the rear than this car.

He’s running 235/40R18s. I run a slightly taller 245/40R18, so a tad more sidewalk to fill out that fender gap.

End result should be a GTI that is 15-19mm lower than stock but with MILES more usable travel and compression, and the much more desirable spring rates than any of the OTB GTI lowering springs can offer (VWR, ED, H&R etc)

I think it’s gonna be perfect!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Here is a GTI on 18” BBS wheels with tiny 225/40 stock size rubber, running the Golf R linear Eibach Pro Kit (see pics)

On a street and sport application I think the Golf R Eibachs are the best choice. Linear, appropriate spring rates for street and handling, reasonably priced, and they’ll pair well with stock dampers or aftermarket B8/Koni Sport adjustable.

But I know I’m competing with some much fancier BMW M cars and proud Porsches at these track events, and I want to try a firmer spring.

I also reference the Bilstein B16 kit, one of the most comfortable and user friendly coilover setups for under $1700:

Those run a 400/420lb in spring combo F&R

My front rates with the 034 S3 springs are 80lbs softer up front, but I have a reallllly sweet 28mm H&R FSB up front that acts as a helper spring in hard corners.

I always tune suspension and chassis setups as a system:

All components have to pair well together for the intended use and desired ride quality.

Hope to have everything installed and dialed by this weekend.

Will definitely report back asap.

 

[tigeo]

In regards to EBC brake pad bed – in procedures:

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/race-motorsport-articles/bedding-in/

This was sent to me by the tech-support team of buy-brakes.com

They also informed me that the RPX is out of stock for our cars. Total Boner killer!

In regards to EBC brake pad bed – in procedures:

https://www.ebcbrakes.com/race-motorsport-articles/bedding-in/

This was sent to me by the tech-support team of buy-brakes.com

They also informed me that the RPX is out of stock for our cars. Total Boner killer!

Yeah, they include the directions with their pads - for BSNDX and RPX, basically ready to roll beyond normal bedding procedures is what I have done with good success.

 

[RopeJumper13]

Here is a GTI on 18” BBS wheels with tiny 225/40 stock size rubber, running the Golf R linear Eibach Pro Kit (see pics)

On a street and sport application I think the Golf R Eibachs are the best choice. Linear, appropriate spring rates for street and handling, reasonably priced, and they’ll pair well with stock dampers or aftermarket B8/Koni Sport adjustable.

But I know I’m competing with some much fancier BMW M cars and proud Porsches at these track events, and I want to try a firmer spring.

I also reference the Bilstein B16 kit, one of the most comfortable and user friendly coilover setups for under $1700:

Those run a 400/420lb in spring combo F&R

My front rates with the 034 S3 springs are 80lbs softer up front, but I have a reallllly sweet 28mm H&R FSB up front that acts as a helper spring in hard corners.

I always tune suspension and chassis setups as a system:

All components have to pair well together for the intended use and desired ride quality.

Hope to have everything installed and dialed by this weekend.

Will definitely report back asap.

Always thought this car was running the Linear version E10-15-021-02-22 (GTI) vs E10-85-041-01-22 (R). Makes sense why I always thought this one rode a little high.

Looks like E10-85-041-01-22 is rated for 10-15mm F&R on the R. I'm running the E10-15-021-02-22 with the 034 LCA and at times I feel its a little too low, I would agree with 30mm in the front. Might be able to use the redesigned APR springs to get a similar comparison, since the same spring is advertised as:

• 323 lbs/in Front, 5mm Golf R vs 18mm GTI drop
• 362 lbs/in Rear, 22mm Golf R vs 32mm GTI drop

Its never that simple though, so I'll be keeping an eye out for your results! Hoping the 034 S3 springs could turn into a real option of others.

FYI, Was able to get 8.8/8.6 caster with those control arms!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Always thought this car was running the Linear version E10-15-021-02-22 (GTI) vs E10-85-041-01-22 (R). Makes sense why I always thought this one rode a little high.

Looks like E10-85-041-01-22 is rated for 10-15mm F&R on the R. I'm running the E10-15-021-02-22 with the 034 LCA and at times I feel its a little too low, I would agree with 30mm in the front. Might be able to use the redesigned APR springs to get a similar comparison, since the same spring is advertised as:

• 323 lbs/in Front, 5mm Golf R vs 18mm GTI drop
• 362 lbs/in Rear, 22mm Golf R vs 32mm GTI drop

Its never that simple though, so I'll be keeping an eye out for your results! Hoping the 034 S3 springs could turn into a real option of others.

FYI, Was able to get 8.8/8.6 caster with those control arms!

The APR RC springs are a larger OD than stock, so be advised if you are running, or ever want to run, upper camber mounts.

The springs will literally rub and bind against the inside of the strut tower.

Data Driven MQB (our very own Derhase) has shot video documenting it.

The APR spring rates are nice, but their most recent offering drops the rear wayyyy too much, and it looks visibly uneven, like the car is smuggling a small family in the back.

 

[RopeJumper13]

The APR RC springs are a larger OD than stock, so be advised if you are running, or ever want to run, upper camber mounts.

The springs will literally rub and bind against the inside of the strut tower.

Data Driven MQB (our very own Derhase) has shot video documenting it.

The APR spring rates are nice, but their most recent offering drops the rear wayyyy too much, and it looks visibly uneven, like the car is smuggling a small family in the back.

I saw that video, a sad oversight!

I wonder if it would be a crazy idea to use the EMD (10mm~) or Neuspeed (5-7mm) rear spring spacers with the Audi TT pads (7-8mm~) to bring that rear drop up to a normal range.

 

[tigeo]

Always thought this car was running the Linear version E10-15-021-02-22 (GTI) vs E10-85-041-01-22 (R). Makes sense why I always thought this one rode a little high.

Looks like E10-85-041-01-22 is rated for 10-15mm F&R on the R. I'm running the E10-15-021-02-22 with the 034 LCA and at times I feel its a little too low, I would agree with 30mm in the front. Might be able to use the redesigned APR springs to get a similar comparison, since the same spring is advertised as:

• 323 lbs/in Front, 5mm Golf R vs 18mm GTI drop
• 362 lbs/in Rear, 22mm Golf R vs 32mm GTI drop

Its never that simple though, so I'll be keeping an eye out for your results! Hoping the 034 S3 springs could turn into a real option of others.

FYI, Was able to get 8.8/8.6 caster with those control arms!

I think the 034 S3 springs would be great for the wagons. RS3 like the one fellow ran on his 4Mo GSW are likely a little too much for those B8s but maybe not?