4/10/24 Track Night @ HHR - Stormy attempts a FWD lap record (how will it end?)

[GoatAutomotive]

I saw that video, a sad oversight!

I wonder if it would be a crazy idea to use the EMD (10mm~) or Neuspeed (5-7mm) rear spring spacers with the Audi TT pads (7-8mm~) to bring that rear drop up to a normal range.

I thought the same thing. Would likely work great!

I am as eager as anyone to see how the 034 S3 spring settle down on my setup (final ride heights). I have a super busy week, but I will make the install happen.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I think the 034 S3 springs would be great for the wagons. RS3 like the one fellow ran on his 4Mo GSW are likely a little too much for those B8s but maybe not?

So quick clarifier:

The RS3 springs from 034 are a different animal from the S3 springs I purchased, and this decision was intentional:

034 S3 spring rates: 310/400lb/sin F/R. Designed for a 3460lb car

034 RS3 spring rates: 350lb/in front, 450lb/in rear. Designed for a 3650lb car

On a heavier MQB GSW like you and Terrence S. run @ VIR (3350lb curb before weight reduction), I think the RS3 coils are a great option, but definitely stiff out back for lighter cars.

My fears: I worried the RS3 springs on my little GTI wouldn't sit right (front to back, possible 4x4 ride height), or would be too stiff for my kiddos.

I was all set to run the Linear Golf R Eibachs I picked up 2nd hand until I happened upon the 034 S3 springs.

Found them completely by accident while scouring "the land of parts I can't truly afford" on FB-MP. Seller was fantastic, and a fellow Texan.

Hope this helps explain the rationale behind intentionally mixing MQB parts.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

4/3 Update! Parts are coming.

Other parts are non-existent/on backorder for this platform, which is saving me money and easing my conscience.

The good stuff is pouring in all of this week.

Unavailable: EBC RPX front pads
Available: EBC BS NDX front and rear
...Result: pass for now. They weren't gonna make it here by 4/9 anyway.

Unavailable (from a single vendor): Ferodo DS 3.12 front pads + DS 1.11 rears
Available: Powerstop Track Day Spec pads, 30 day trial through PSB (negotiated by phone today)
...Result: PS TDS pad ordered. Woot!

I never had the money for Ferodos, and I'd just assume go easier on the brakes and surrender ~2 seconds a lap if it came to it. $$$ At least for this first event.

TLDR on Track Day Spec pads: they work great. They likely won't last anywhere near as long as an EBC or Ferodo pad set. But my sessions are only 15-minutes x 3 per event, and the track isn't bad on brakes. I think this will be perfect.

Consensus on TDS pads: clean your wheels asap after an event. and change back to street pads. The dust is substantial. Noise varies. Heat tolerance: up to 974* F per PSB tech support today.

Friction isn't mentioned in PSB's literature, which was irritating, so I called for clarity. This is what we learned:

Track Day pads: 0.48Mu ambient, 0.52Mu @ track temps
Track Day SPEC pads: 0.52Mu ambient, 0.54Mu @ track temps

So far I've ordered:

-RS3 updated brake cooling ducts from e-acca (thank you, Scrllock!)
...these are gonna take weeks to arrive. Will re-use my old ones for 4/10.

-VW OE splash shield for front end + hardware
-Track Day pads (30-day trial)
-Fresh high-carbon, blank coated rotors w/2yr warranty
-2 bottles Motul RBF600
-Newer GoPro cameras on loan
-GoPro accessories for helmet mount + body mount (I think...)
-Lap timer gear w/GPS & OBD integration


In the works to cope with Mosquito @$$ Syndrome in Turn 10:

-Stock turbo inlet pipe for $15 to eliminate smoke issues, OR...

-Mk8 PCV retrofit 2nd hand incl. 034 TMD & fittings

I'm about ready to stop here with the project. Seriously. Ton of installs to make happen, money disappearing, and 4/10 is creeping up quickly.

I covered tires, brakes, fluid, suspension, and smoky butt pipes in hard brake zones.

We good?

WILL HE MAKE IT?...
This is easily 2 full days of work including alignment, plus time for testing and experimenting with the new wheels & tires, brakes, suspension. It's a big chunk of elephant, but I'm hopeful.

Huge thank you to @scrllock , @krs, @DerHase & @tigeo for all of the help and direction so far. Truly, thank you for the great info and support.

 

[tigeo]

 

[1970something]

Here is a GTI on 18” BBS wheels with tiny 225/40 stock size rubber, running the Golf R linear Eibach Pro Kit (see pics)

On a street and sport application I think the Golf R Eibachs are the best choice. Linear, appropriate spring rates for street and handling, reasonably priced, and they’ll pair well with stock dampers or aftermarket B8/Koni Sport adjustable.

But I know I’m competing with some much fancier BMW M cars and proud Porsches at these track events, and I want to try a firmer spring.

I also reference the Bilstein B16 kit, one of the most comfortable and user friendly coilover setups for under $1700:

Those run a 400/420lb in spring combo F&R

My front rates with the 034 S3 springs are 80lbs softer up front, but I have a reallllly sweet 28mm H&R FSB up front that acts as a helper spring in hard corners.

I always tune suspension and chassis setups as a system:

All components have to pair well together for the intended use and desired ride quality.

Hope to have everything installed and dialed by this weekend.

Will definitely report back asap.

Are we sure this picture is with Golf R springs? I’m finding 3 options on the Eibach site:

Base Golf: E10-15-021-02-22
Golf R: E10-85-041-01-22
GTI: 85117.140

I believe the Base Golf ones are also called “Euro Linear”?

 

[RopeJumper13]

Europeans/ROW release VW suspension comments targeted at a broader range of compatible cars (usually). Those numbers match what is found in the Eibach US Catalog but Eibach DE uses the US base Golf part number across a majority of their “Golf 7” models. Some people choose to go with the DE catalog vs US catalog for their car model. I personally consider the Eibach DE as the original catalog and the US branch will cherry pick from there or create their own springs for European vehicles. In this case the Eibach US decided to create their own prokit for the GTI and made it progressive based on what they think the US market wants.

No idea what specific springs that car is actually running though.

Check out the Eibach DE catalog here: https://web2.carparts-cat.com/defau...50=1&1230=9997&1231=&31=10585&330=1436&1260=1

 

[GoatAutomotive]

034 springs and LCAs going on today and tomorrow. Will report back ASAP.

Those of you with Bilstein B8s who aren't happy with the crashy ride on aftermarket drop springs, stay tuned, and don't give up! These are fantastic dampers for a proper cup kit.

 

[tigeo]

Keep in mind "progressive" really

034 springs and LCAs going on today and tomorrow. Will report back ASAP.

Those of you with Bilstein B8s who aren't happy with the crashy ride on aftermarket drop springs, stay tuned, and don't give up! These are fantastic dampers for a proper cup kit.

View attachment 302085

View attachment 302086

That crashing is all about lack of travel and/or spring rate.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Keep in mind "progressive" really

That crashing is all about lack of travel and/or spring rate.

Agreed 100%. Hence why the stiffer Springs and taller ride height of the S3s should be transformative.

Nearly every other offering on the market for lowering spring is progressive, which means they’re soft for the initial bump travel, then (because of the lack of compression travel at lowered heights on these cars), the dampers are immediately contacting the bump stops.

With stock style rubber jouncers, this is livable. With the hard Bilstein B8 front bump stops that are internal, it feels and sounds like a small gunshot fired through the dash.

 

[tigeo]

Agreed 100%. Hence why the stiffer Springs and taller ride height of the S3s should be transformative.

Nearly every other offering on the market for lowering spring is progressive, which means they’re soft for the initial bump travel, then (because of the lack of compression travel at lowered heights on these cars), the dampers are immediately contacting the bump stops.

With stock style rubber jouncers, this is livable. With the hard Bilstein B8 front bump stops that are internal, it feels and sounds like a small gunshot fired through the dash.

I have had v. good luck with those cheap spring rubbers to allievate this issue, my car has great feel with big bumps/hits. I still say just replacing the jounces with something more progressive/firmer/higher ramp-up would do the same thing based on your comment. Will be cool to see/hear about your results. At this point if I pull my suspension it will be replaced with coilovers vs. any more springs just based on the labor/PITA factor.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I have had v. good luck with those cheap spring rubbers to allievate this issue, my car has great feel with big bumps/hits. I still say just replacing the jounces with something more progressive/firmer/higher ramp-up would do the same thing based on your comment. Will be cool to see/hear about your results. At this point if I pull my suspension it will be replaced with coilovers vs. any more springs just based on the labor/PITA factor.

I feel you 100%!

No more spring changes after this or else it’s straight Bilstein B16s for me.

I tried your rubber travel limiters on my H&Rs. 2 per coil in critical areas to provide an even coil spring support:

One shot out while driving at slow speeds down the road, the other lasted a long time…then shot out on the interstate while doing 70-80. Sounded terrible

I’m running an additional -0.8* negative camber via ES mounts, which pits the springs closer to the strut tower, may or may not be a contributor to the rubbers popping off over time.

Hopefully it didn’t cause any damage to another vehicle. But it’s also I-35, a literal life and death game akin to Twisted Metal.

I’m done trying to make H&R springs work for my purposes.

Someone who just wants a “Cars & Coffee 1” drop” will love these. They ride very well, just don’t pair well with the Bilsteins and the hard internal travel limiters up front.

 

[GoatAutomotive]

The fappening is finally happening…

Links to info on the lower control arms and coils:

LCAs - https://www.034motorsport.com/dynamic-rco-control-arms-audi-volkswagen-mqb-and-mqb-evo.html

S3 springs (currently on sale, hopefully not clearance!): https://www.034motorsport.com/dynam...-s3-quattro-performance-lowering-springs.html

 

[GoatAutomotive]

I calculate at least 200 pounds of additional weight outback and 100 pounds upfront to account for the weight of the Quattro system.

This is the Delta between the 3462 curb weight of an Audi S3 and the 3150 curb weight of a GTI SE, with DSG and some minor weight reduction.

So we know we will have 100 pounds less over the front axle, 200 pounds less over the rear.

We run the math divided amongst the coil springs and we should see 4–5 mm higher on a GTI and 7mm higher on the rear.

“Show your work, Migs…”

Front ride height:
100lbs / 2 = 50lbs per front corner (the amount of force acting upon each of the front 2 coils)

50/310 (spring rate) = .161 inches

.161 x 25.4 (metric conversion) = 4.10mm delta
------------------------------------------------------
Front suspension will sit 4.1mm higher than the S3 (which is a good thing for me)


Rear: 212lbs / 2 = 111lbs per rear corner

111 / 400 (spring rate) = .278 inches

.278 x 25.4 (metric conversion) = 7.05mm delta
--------------------------------------------------------
Rear of car should sit 7.05mm higher than the S3.


This can become advantageous as it negates the need for the rear spring spacers (from the TT or EMD) people have been spending money on with the lesser lowering spring options designed directly for the GTI…springs that almost always fail to provide a balanced reduction in ride height.

I will be taking before and after ride height measurements on Stormy, with the H&R‘s that are coming off, then with the S3 springs that are going on.

Since these are secondhand and came off an actual S3, they should already be settled.

Pictures again of the actual S3 they came from:

 

[tigeo]

I feel you 100%!

No more spring changes after this or else it’s straight Bilstein B16s for me.

I tried your rubber travel limiters on my H&Rs. 2 per coil in critical areas to provide an even coil spring support:

One shot out while driving at slow speeds down the road, the other lasted a long time…then shot out on the interstate while doing 70-80. Sounded terrible

I’m running an additional -0.8* negative camber via ES mounts, which pits the springs closer to the strut tower, may or may not be a contributor to the rubbers popping off over time.

Hopefully it didn’t cause any damage to another vehicle. But it’s also I-35, a literal life and death game akin to Twisted Metal.

I’m done trying to make H&R springs work for my purposes.

Someone who just wants a “Cars & Coffee 1” drop” will love these. They ride very well, just don’t pair well with the Bilsteins and the hard internal travel limiters up front.

Gotta zip tie those bad boys on!

 

[GoatAutomotive]

Gotta zip tie those bad boys on!