APR Presents the DQ250 DSG & S tronic TCU Upgrade!

[thatspsychotic]

I do have one quick question that I don't think has been asked yet. Does do anything to help alleviate the 1st gear hesitation/throttle lag? This is especially noticeable when you're slowing down to almost a stop, and then get on the throttle again.

If any tuner ever figures out how to fix this, I will be the first in line to receive the tune.

100x this. I care more about this than any performance enhancement that the DSG tune could offer. Stage 1 ECU tune did nothing for this, hoping the TCU tune will.

 

[swagger76]

This tune sounds great. I've been growing more and more frustrated with the stock DSG programming as of late, so this may be my next upgrade.

I do have one quick question that I don't think has been asked yet. Does do anything to help alleviate the 1st gear hesitation/throttle lag? This is especially noticeable when you're slowing down to almost a stop, and then get on the throttle again.

I have a feeling this isn't exclusively a DSG issue, but I figured I would ask. It may just be due to the electronic throttle, although I never had this issue in my Honda Fit (which was also electronic throttle). There are multiple threads on this forum discussing the issue:

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44594
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=41561
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=54494
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44002

If any tuner ever figures out how to fix this, I will be the first in line to receive the tune.

The immediate throttle response will never be solved completely. But this tune does make it better. I've read many of these threads as well. I think it is a combination of a lot of factors that cause the slight delay. But, i believe the MAIN cause of it is the fail safe in place from the brake to the dsg. From my understanding, when the brake is let off, there is a fail safe of a millisecond or so to let the car go into gear only when the brake is off. It is there to protect the DSG itself. I could be completely wrong, but I read this somewhere and it made sense.


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[2013R]

But, i believe the MAIN cause of it is the fail safe in place from the brake to the dsg. From my understanding, when the brake is let off, there is a fail safe of a millisecond or so to let the car go into gear only when the brake is off. It is there to protect the DSG itself. I could be completely wrong, but I read this somewhere and it made sense.

i agree. thats why i have learned how to work around it with my competitors DSG tune. when my cross street stoplight turns from orange to red, i let my foot off the brake. that way, in the 1 second my light turns green, the DSG hesitation is complete and my foot simply launches the car immediately. Takes careful timing to not start rolling too early. additionally at stop signs, i first release the brake, then wait 1/2 a second to hit the gas. makes for an immediate take-off.

 

[pgreene1]

i agree. thats why i have learned how to work around it with my competitors DSG tune. when my cross street stoplight turns from orange to red, i let my foot off the brake. that way, in the 1 second my light turns green, the DSG hesitation is complete and my foot simply launches the car immediately. Takes careful timing to not start rolling too early. additionally at stop signs, i first release the brake, then wait 1/2 a second to hit the gas. makes for an immediate take-off.

I've learned to do this as well. Any time I'm going to be accelerating from a stop, I let off of the brake and wait a second or so before using the accelerator. I anticipate lights just like you said. It's still super annoying!

 

[Charlotte CC]

Auto hold works fine for me. I don't really notice a lag. Push the gas pedal and go.

 

[thatspsychotic]

I've learned to do this as well. Any time I'm going to be accelerating from a stop, I let off of the brake and wait a second or so before using the accelerator. I anticipate lights just like you said. It's still super annoying!

That's not quite the delay he was referring to. The problematic delay is the rolling stop delay. If you roll up to a stop and slow to 2 or 3 mph (or even faster if you're coming from an onramp and let the DSG downshift itself at 1000 RPM) but not a complete stop, the transmission ends up in neutral and hesitates, for what feels like forever, before selecting either 1st or 2nd and taking off again. I've had this happen in traffic where the delay was borderline unsafe.

 

[pgreene1]

That's not quite the delay he was referring to. The problematic delay is the rolling stop delay. If you roll up to a stop and slow to 2 or 3 mph (or even faster if you're coming from an onramp and let the DSG downshift itself at 1000 RPM) but not a complete stop, the transmission ends up in neutral and hesitates, for what feels like forever, before selecting either 1st or 2nd and taking off again. I've had this happen in traffic where the delay was borderline unsafe.

I know exactly what you're talking about. There's really two distinct yet related "issues" in regards to throttle delay. One is when starting from a stop, and the other is when you get on the throttle during a rolling stop. Both are annoying, and one is dangerous (like you mentioned).

I almost always drive in M mode, and I still encounter the delay you're speaking of periodically, even when I purposefully shift into first or second to try and "prepare" the car for acceleration.

 

[swagger76]

I know exactly what you're talking about. There's really two distinct yet related "issues" in regards to throttle delay. One is when starting from a stop, and the other is when you get on the throttle during a rolling stop. Both are annoying, and one is dangerous (like you mentioned).



I almost always drive in M mode, and I still encounter the delay you're speaking of periodically, even when I purposefully shift into first or second to try and "prepare" the car for acceleration.

I don't get the one from a rolling stop... Maybe never noticed it.


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[XGC75]

That's not quite the delay he was referring to. The problematic delay is the rolling stop delay. If you roll up to a stop and slow to 2 or 3 mph (or even faster if you're coming from an onramp and let the DSG downshift itself at 1000 RPM) but not a complete stop, the transmission ends up in neutral and hesitates, for what feels like forever, before selecting either 1st or 2nd and taking off again. I've had this happen in traffic where the delay was borderline unsafe.

I know this feeling, I'm 6mt. When I'm in first, coasting somewhat (partial throttle just enough to maintain speed) I have to hit the gas in anticipation of moving. Sometimes when my window to move closes (I'm in a parking lot and someone walks out in front of me), it can get dangerous as the car will suddenly pick up speed when I should be on the brake already.

It feels like the ECU is trying to ease into the torque to help protect the driveline (whether DSG or 6mt). Though, that "ease into" could be anything but steady. :iono:

I hear mounts can help this.

 

[thatspsychotic]

I know this feeling, I'm 6mt. When I'm in first, coasting somewhat (partial throttle just enough to maintain speed) I have to hit the gas in anticipation of moving. Sometimes when my window to move closes (I'm in a parking lot and someone walks out in front of me), it can get dangerous as the car will suddenly pick up speed when I should be on the brake already.

It feels like the ECU is trying to ease into the torque to help protect the driveline (whether DSG or 6mt). Though, that "ease into" could be anything but steady. :iono:

I hear mounts can help this.

Depending on what RPM range you're in, this could simply be turbo lag.

With the DSG issue, there is a period of time where I've pressed on the gas pedal, but the throttle plate has literally not moved at all while the DSG figures out where it has to be and moves the clutches. I don't have VAGCOM, and I don't think my cheapo OBD2 adapter can read the data quickly enough or the right kinds of data.

 

[Motodude310]

A lot of that lag is is drive by wire also, we all have it and kinda blows. Probably one of the things that will slowly get better over the years in production. Hopefully. The V3 K04 tune actually soaks a lot of it up and makes the car much more responsive though.

 

[speedster]

You guys should stop doing rolling stops. I have so many friends who got tickets for that reason. As a bonus you'll get faster acceleration too

 

[thatspsychotic]

A lot of that lag is is drive by wire also, we all have it and kinda blows.

I'm almost sure that's not the case. When the car is in gear and the RPMs are high, there is almost no "pedal lag" that I can percieve. Any "pedal lag" is at low speed with the transmission waffling between gears or in neutral. This delay is a software manifestation of some sort.

What I'm asking for is this: when slowing down and the transmission is auto-downshifting in M mode, keep at least one gear partially engaged with the clutches all the time, until I reach zero speed. The clutch pressure could be very low, and there could be plenty of slip to allow the engine RPMs to stay around 1200 RPM or so even as the car slows down. This way, when I press the gas again in the rolling stop, the clutch pressure can increase quickly and in concert with the ECU opening the throttle plate.

 

[thatspsychotic]

You guys should stop doing rolling stops. I have so many friends who got tickets for that reason. As a bonus you'll get faster acceleration too

Hahah I notice it at legal rolling stops too I get this all the time at rotaries/roundabouts, or even making slow right turns at intersections with a green light.

 

[Motodude310]

I'm almost sure that's not the case. When the car is in gear and the RPMs are high, there is almost no "pedal lag" that I can percieve. Any "pedal lag" is at low speed with the transmission waffling between gears or in neutral. This delay is a software manifestation of some sort.

What I'm asking for is this: when slowing down and the transmission is auto-downshifting in M mode, keep at least one gear partially engaged with the clutches all the time, until I reach zero speed. The clutch pressure could be very low, and there could be plenty of slip to allow the engine RPMs to stay around 1200 RPM or so even as the car slows down. This way, when I press the gas again in the rolling stop, the clutch pressure can increase quickly and in concert with the ECU opening the throttle plate.

Yeah, you shouldn't have any lag except from dead stops. Or if you downshift to 1st while crawling. I just leave it in 2nd and it takes off.