Rebuilding a 2.0 TSI after timing failure at 173k *ON A BUDGET* (less than $1k spent) - And Then Balance Shafts 2 Years Later

[BudgetPhoenix]

I

Edit- I see it, Elring timing cover. Awesome.
Dan, I found one on ebay for $60
https://www.ebay.com/i/133260841087...SaMus7oV47EptiweyD2QSFgMkASVa1UcaAmNKEALw_wcB
New seller that ships from China...I'm not sure about this one.

I have one of the cheaper lower timing covers from china, works fine for a couple years now no leaks with permatex black rtv.

 

[zrickety]

Thanks guys. I could probably have shopped around some more, but ECS has treated me right in the past. I also have their skid plate coming, it was a life saver on the 2010 and this car is missing the belly pan.

 

[Dans GTI]

Edit- I see it, Elring timing cover. Awesome.
Dan, I found one on ebay for $60
https://www.ebay.com/i/133260841087...SaMus7oV47EptiweyD2QSFgMkASVa1UcaAmNKEALw_wcB
New seller that ships from China...I'm not sure about this one.

Yeah, i'd pass on the China cover its not a legitimate part. My view is, is it worth saving $30 to potentially tear down the engine again due to a timing cover leak. I also highly reccomend purchasing new bolts for the timing cover as they are stretch bolts and they will snap (ask me how i know.....)

For anyone viewing the thread, the link to the $90 OE timing cover - > https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/audi-vw-timing-cover-elring-06h109210ag

Also, i'd recommend not using permatex ultra black for sealing the timing cover. Use one of those grey sealents, Permatex sells "the right stuff one minute sealer" which is what i used for my oil pan, but for the timing cover i went to my local Mercedes dealership and bought their grey sealant they use there (pretty sure its the same thing as the permatex right stuff). The grey sealant bonds much quicker/harder and dries faster.

 

[MrFancypants]

Great thread, I’m looking forward to seeing this as it progresses. Recently I’ve felt the urge to rebuild an engine for no apparent reason. The engine in my car is healthy and strong, so I’ve thought about finding a spare with bent valves to tear down and put back together just for the experience of doing so.

 

[Tony48]

Also, i'd recommend not using permatex ultra black for sealing the timing cover. Use one of those grey sealents, Permatex sells "the right stuff one minute sealer" which is what i used for my oil pan, but for the timing cover i went to my local Mercedes dealership and bought their grey sealant they use there (pretty sure its the same thing as the permatex right stuff). The grey sealant bonds much quicker/harder and dries faster.

Agreed, use the grey sealant. This is the stuff I used. It's what ECS includes in their "Ultimate Timing" kits . Comes with a good nozzle and winding tool too. Used it 2 years ago on my lower timing cover and it's still leak free.

I believe some people also have luck using the OEM Porsche Timing Sealant. I would feel confident using it.

 

[Dans GTI]

Agreed, use the grey sealant. This is the stuff I used. It's what ECS includes in their "Ultimate Timing" kits . Comes with a good nozzle and winding tool too. Used it 2 years ago on my lower timing cover and it's still leak free.

I believe some people also have luck using the OEM Porsche Timing Sealant. I would feel confident using it.

The victor reinz you linked is the same product i purchased from Mercedes, just re-branded. The Mercedes sealant i used and "the right stuff" looked and smelled the same and after some quick googling i found that the permatex and victor reniz cross reference each other.

 

[brat_burner]

Is there an issue with using stock head bolts? Didn't use arp's that often unless the customer requested or it was big hp. They suck when you have to take the engine apart and they have the entire package of lube on them. ?

 

[zrickety]

I’ve thought about finding a spare with bent valves to tear down and put back together just for the experience of doing so.

You should. The right cheap motor or car, you could potentially rebuild it for $500. Engines sell for $2k minimum, I've looked.
There are 2 types of permatex, one is black, the other is Ultra black for 'max oil resistance.' I used it on my k04 car without issue, and it gets driven pretty hard.

 

[zrickety]

Is there an issue with using stock head bolts? Didn't use arp's that often unless the customer requested or it was big hp. They suck when you have to take the engine apart and they have the entire package of lube on them. ?

There is probably not an issue with stock bolts, but I like the peace of mind using higher rated fasteners. My buddy is buying the 2010 from me and I'll be back in this car. It's a Stage 2 but eventually it will become a track toy and get more upgrades.

 

[Tony48]

The victor reinz you linked is the same product i purchased from Mercedes, just re-branded. The Mercedes sealant i used and "the right stuff" looked and smelled the same and after some quick googling i found that the permatex and victor reniz cross reference each other.

Good to know. I think a cross reference number from the VW OEM sealant is how I found the Victor Reinz sealant.

 

[BudgetPhoenix]

I do like the "Right stuff" type of quick curing RTVs but I can assure you even regular permatex black rtv works great for this application. There's a guy in norcal whos a reputable vw/merc tech who did tons of work on the side for forum and fb group members who told me by the time the timing cover is back on and everything else is bolted up which only took him like 45 minutes after doing my tensioner its cured long enough to put the oil in and sure enough it never leaked once. I also used it again when I redid my own timing chain and had zero issues, engine block is still bone dry.

 

[brat_burner]

I do like the "Right stuff" type of quick curing RTVs but I can assure you even regular permatex black rtv works great for this application. There's a guy in norcal whos a reputable vw/merc tech who did tons of work on the side for forum and fb group members who told me by the time the timing cover is back on and everything else is bolted up which only took him like 45 minutes after doing my tensioner its cured long enough to put the oil in and sure enough it never leaked once. I also used it again when I redid my own timing chain and had zero issues, engine block is still bone dry.

Yup cleanliness is most important. All the new mercs are glued together except for head gaskets

 

[Roadrunner_GTI]

To do this job right you really need to send the head to a machine shop to have a multi-angle valve job performed and to have the head resurfaced. You're asking for trouble to not have either of these done, especially on an aluminum head that tends to warp with age/temperature. As was mentioned, I've had no issues with Permatex ultra black on both oil pans and timing covers. For the valve cover you will need some Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker.

I'd recommend a valve spring compressor like this one, which is pretty affordable and ok for occasional use.
*edit* Just noticed you already purchased a valve spring compressor, but I'll leave the link for anyone that's looking for a slightly cheaper option.

 

[brat_burner]

To do this job right you really need to send the head to a machine shop to have a multi-angle valve job performed and to have the head resurfaced. You're asking for trouble to not have either of these done, especially on an aluminum head that tends to warp with age/temperature. As was mentioned, I've had no issues with Permatex ultra black on both oil pans and timing covers. For the valve cover you will need some Permatex Anaerobic Gasket Maker.

I'd recommend a valve spring compressor like this one, which is pretty affordable and ok for occasional use.
*edit* Just noticed you already purchased a valve spring compressor, but I'll leave the link for anyone that's looking for a slightly cheaper option.

How about having the guides checked or replaced also.

 

[Roadrunner_GTI]

How about having the guides checked or replaced also.

Absolutely, although checking the guides is typically included in the scope of a valve job (or at least it was for me when I was a machinist). If I found they worn, then I would inform the customer that they needed to be replaced.