Anyone experience mid gear clutch slip on DSG? (APR K04 + APR DSG Tune)

[lilfleck]

Let me preface this by saying when I had my 2011 MT GTI, clutch slip could be repeated by WOT at low RPM on a high gear (3-6).

On my 2011 DSG GTI, APR K04 3.1, APR DSG Stage 2 Tune
5th gear, low rpm, WOT - no slip
Downshift to 5th gear (no throttle), high rpm (4k+), go WOT - slip

Slip = it hesitates, skips forward, then back, then power again. It's pretty noticeable now with the colder temperatures.

I'm wondering if its the mechatronics unit or actually a slipping clutch. I did the DSG flush at 40k, I'm now right under 60k.

VW dealer will charge diagnostic fee and may not even properly diagnose since its tuned and has basically full bolt ons. Euro shop will charge $100/hr for diagnostics as well and is my last resort.

Just wondering what others experiences are and what the next best move is.

 

[jay745]

I don't have dsg so I can't comment on the symptoms really much. I have several friends with dsg who reported hesitations, I have done the dsg adaptation for them and they have said it solved it. Maybe try that before going to the dealer?

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/6-Speed_Direct_Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/02E)

 

[U-20T]

Let me preface this by saying when I had my 2011 MT GTI, clutch slip could be repeated by WOT at low RPM on a high gear (3-6).

On my 2011 DSG GTI,
5th gear, low rpm, WOT - no slip
Downshift to 5th gear (no throttle), high rpm (4k+), go WOT - slip

Slip = it hesitates, skips forward, then back, then power again. It's pretty noticeable now with the colder temperatures.

I'm wondering if its the mechatronics unit or actually a slipping clutch. I did the DSG flush at 40k, I'm now right under 60k.

VW dealer will charge diagnostic fee and may not even properly diagnose since its tuned and has basically full bolt ons. Euro shop will charge $100/hr for diagnostics as well and is my last resort.

Just wondering what others experiences are and what the next best move is.

read codes and do a clutch adaption. it could also be the torque limitations in the dsg.

 

[lilfleck]

I don't have dsg so I can't comment on the symptoms really much. I have several friends with dsg who reported hesitations, I have done the dsg adaptation for them and they have said it solved it. Maybe try that before going to the dealer?

http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/6-Speed_Direct_Shift_Gearbox_(DSG/02E)

read codes and do a clutch adaption. it could also be the torque limitations in the dsg.

Thanks. I did the clutch adaptation last winter. I will try doing it again.

In terms of torque limitations, with APR's DSG tune, shouldn't this be a non-issue? I thought they accounted for it.

 

[U-20T]

Thanks. I did the clutch adaptation last winter. I will try doing it again.

In terms of torque limitations, with APR's DSG tune, shouldn't this be a non-issue? I thought they accounted for it.

figured you were on oem software but not sure what they did

 

[greasyginzo]

You really shouldn't have slip on stock turbo

 

[zrickety]

I would try another adaptation and maybe switch to Motul. Do you know that the level is good??

 

[GIACUser]

Let me preface this by saying when I had my 2011 MT GTI, clutch slip could be repeated by WOT at low RPM on a high gear (3-6).

On my 2011 DSG GTI,
5th gear, low rpm, WOT - no slip
Downshift to 5th gear (no throttle), high rpm (4k+), go WOT - slip

Slip = it hesitates, skips forward, then back, then power again. It's pretty noticeable now with the colder temperatures.

I'm wondering if its the mechatronics unit or actually a slipping clutch. I did the DSG flush at 40k, I'm now right under 60k.

VW dealer will charge diagnostic fee and may not even properly diagnose since its tuned and has basically full bolt ons. Euro shop will charge $100/hr for diagnostics as well and is my last resort.

Just wondering what others experiences are and what the next best move is.

My DSG started slipping at about 65K miles. I didn't really notice it but was discovered when I put the car on the dyno and logged boost. The normal correlation between boost and torque was way off. Unitronics had me do some TCU logging to confirm the slipping. I can tell you what they had me log but I don't know how to interpret. In DSG it was group 120 engine load specified and delivered and of course rpm. Looking at the specified column it appears that the max allowable torque appears in NM. The log indicated low torque in my case during the 4th gear run from 2K to 7K rpm

I was running a GIAC DSG tune at the time, I switched to Unitronics Stg 3 DSG tune and its torque setting was higher. I assumed that the higher setting would help solve my problem, however the torque settings that the tuners are using in their advertising is about max torque setting allowed. It does nothing to increase clamping force to remedy a slipping clutch.

I asked Unitronics to provide a custom version of my Stage 3 DSG tune with clamping force increased and they did so ( warning - I did have to wait a long time to get it but they did deliver as promised). It solved my slipping problem and now I have a bit of torque steer when going from 3rd to 4th WOT.

Most tuners do not sell/advertise tunes that turn up the clamping force. I think HPA is one, DriverMotorsport was another (could not find a way to buy it).

 

[Hoosier Daddy1]

Log the DSG temperatures and the cars duty cycles.
Check for any faults and make sure ABS sensors are in tact and re calibrate.

Edit: try changing out fluid at 20k intervals. DSG flashes are harsh on the fluid and a few guys have found this to be the sweet medium.

 

[DarianBx3]

I flashed my DSG with APR at 14K miles.

Here at 23K miles, I can definitely get it to slip at WOT in high 2nd (maybe 3rd).
I am Stage 2, very noticible on the colder days.

My local dealer is chill. Should I get them to look at it? Change my fluid early?
Is there any sort of upgrade I can make to prevent this from happening again?

 

[Hoosier Daddy1]

I flashed my DSG with APR at 14K miles.

Here at 23K miles, I can definitely get it to slip at WOT in high 2nd (maybe 3rd).
I am Stage 2, very noticible on the colder days.

My local dealer is chill. Should I get them to look at it? Change my fluid early?
Is there any sort of upgrade I can make to prevent this from happening again?

Get them to change early, if not at your own cost. Better than replacing mechatronics or clutches. It's weird that it is worse on colder days, as heat promotes the slipping due to decreased fluid viscosity.

The only solution is a proper cooling solution with a pump and temperature sensor unfortunately. Those are also worth their weight in gold.

 

[DarianBx3]

Get them to change early, if not at your own cost. Better than replacing mechatronics or clutches. It's weird that it is worse on colder days, as heat promotes the slipping due to decreased fluid viscosity.

The only solution is a proper cooling solution with a pump and temperature sensor unfortunately. Those are also worth their weight in gold.

If my dealer does not change the fluid, do you guys think it is worth shelling out the high cost to get it done anyways?

If so, should I start changing it every 20K?

Is there sort of preventative action I could take to prevent this? I have read in various threads that those bolt on cooler things are kind of pointless.

If it helps, I have APR mobile and could provide any needed logs.

Also, I have never done any of those DSG calibrations.

 

[U-20T]

Increased torque limit not clamping force ^

And to Hoosier daddy no need besides own unless tracking here in the US. Also if it doesn't slip it doesn't make as mush heat so less cooling needed. Can launch mine 3-4times with no issue with Temps with zero cooling system.

 

[Hoosier Daddy1]

Increased torque limit not clamping force ^

And to Hoosier daddy no need besides own unless tracking here in the US. Also if it doesn't slip it doesn't make as mush heat so less cooling needed. Can launch mine 3-4times with no issue with Temps with zero cooling system.

I see. The reason i ask is because the DSG will slip because it has a built in safety which protects the clutches. So you're saying the slip causes more heat, the heat then kills the mechatronic?

 

[NeoSA1]

I agree. I've read a lot on the subject and slipping in most cases is the culprit for excessive heat in the DSG box. It's well documented that heat is the main killer for the mechatronics unit as well. My Unitronic DSG tune also sorted out the clutch slip I was getting when I went K04.

Now that I know what clutch slipping sounds like on the DSG, I'm shocked at how many people post videos on youtube of their K04 GTis racing other cars and you can CLEARLY hear their DSG slipping on gear shifts. Little do they know that there's a massive bill waiting for them in their near future.