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New details on 2.0T EA888 Gen 3

TheCastle

Ready to race!
Heard that too, but have to wonder when you see APR talk about the limits the manifold places on stuff like the loba turbos. Would that not hold true because of the water jacket?

Or even stuff about the gtx3076 wheel flowing too much for its turbine wheel. Wouldn't the stock built in manifold pose a similar restriction?

I really can't answer that I don't know enough about the engine particulars to say if the stock head/manifold will be a big restriction or not. I do know that high EGTs are a limiter for output and cause the companies to run the tunes rich and cooler, but making less than optimal power.

According to the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) becasue of the exhaust gas cooling you should be able to flow more exhaust out of a given diamater exhaust pipe. But really we'll have to wait and see what APR can do. I suspect that for small turbo's like a K04 this should make the upgrade easier and cheaper. Might be limiting for bigger turbos, but I suppose a lot depends on the flow rate of the new head?
 

U-20T

Go Kart Champion
It's already not a performance oriented engine for sure, but some things in that PDF I don't like:
-Thinwall crankcase
-Plastic lower oil pan
-Simple exhaust camshaft

Things that already plague the EA888 certainly remaining unchanged:
-Long stroke, doesn't rev
-Turbocharger integrated into exhaust manifold
-Rods
-Sandwiched intercooler design

Only thinner where it can be, it prob a stronger material too. simple cam is same as now.
We don't rev due to the valvetrain and the HPFP floating. Remember a lot of the newer TSIs get valve float factory revs. rods handle 400HP factory which is great.
 

KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
I really can't answer that I don't know enough about the engine particulars to say if the stock head/manifold will be a big restriction or not. I do know that high EGTs are a limiter for output and cause the companies to run the tunes rich and cooler, but making less than optimal power.

According to the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) becasue of the exhaust gas cooling you should be able to flow more exhaust out of a given diamater exhaust pipe. But really we'll have to wait and see what APR can do. I suspect that for small turbo's like a K04 this should make the upgrade easier and cheaper. Might be limiting for bigger turbos, but I suppose a lot depends on the flow rate of the new head?

If Im reading what you are saying correctly,

PV=nRT is a massive over simplification of what is going on.

manifold runner doesnt determine egt. EGT is determined by fuel, timing, and boost(in this case) and the point relative to TDC that combustion occurs.

You dont want exhaust gas to cool. the hotter gas is, the faster it flows....so you want a given volume of gas to be flowing as fast as you possibly can to impact the turbo charger with maximum energy.

The more energy you have pre turbine, and the lower the pressure you have post turbine, (ie size of down pipe) the more power you will make. Obviously a given quantity of gas only requires so much pressure differential for max hp, so putting a 4" dp wont make more power on these cars than a 3", but at 600hp, it would and a 3" pipe would become a restriction.

You are correct, though, that potential will be in how well the head flows, but that changes nothing from current. By eliminating the manifold, you are getting the came combustion chamber EGT, but a higher EGT at the turbine, which increases efficiency.

One of the things I dont think a lot of people get is why the APR stage 3 kits work so well and cost so much. Its just a bunch of pipes and a normal turbo right? The difference is in the manifold. by keeping the runners short, and making them out of inconel they are able to retain enormous amounts of heat compared to basic schedule 10 or schedule 40 stainless. That manifold in and of it self is close to 2 fucking grand to produce. It is accomplishing almost the same effect as eliminating the manifold, in as much as the goal is to ideally reach EGT=X at combustion chamber and EGT still = X at turbine. As the gas travels it cools, so the closer you can get the turbine to the output source of the combustion chamber, the more efficient it will be.

hope that helps.
 

misaka

Ready to race!
Slightly OT but still on, What version of the EA888 is the new S3 getting then? a mod of version 2? or just a bigger turbo version of the full 3?

"Power hails from the latest evolution of Audi’s widely used EA888 engine. The turbocharged 2.0-litre four-cylinder direct injection petrol unit produces 296bhp, providing it with a specific power output of 149bhp per litre. Torque peaks at 280lb ft on a band of revs from 1800 to 5500rpm, representing a 35bhp and 22lb ft increase on the older EA113 engine used by its predecessor.

The new engine is described as Audi’s most advanced four-cylinder production car engine to date. It runs 1.2 bar of turbocharger boost pressure, twin counterbalancing rotation shafts, a two-stage valve lift system with 30deg of camshaft adjustment on the inlet side and 60deg on the exhaust side, a new injection system to deliver fuel to each cylinder depending on throttle load and a 6800rpm redline. It’s also claimed to weigh 5kg less than the engine it replaces"
 

RacingManiac

Drag Race Newbie
Slightly OT but still on, What version of the EA888 is the new S3 getting then? a mod of version 2? or just a bigger turbo version of the full 3?

"Power hails from the latest evolution of Audi’s widely used EA888 engine. The turbocharged 2.0-litre four-cylinder direct injection petrol unit produces 296bhp, providing it with a specific power output of 149bhp per litre. Torque peaks at 280lb ft on a band of revs from 1800 to 5500rpm, representing a 35bhp and 22lb ft increase on the older EA113 engine used by its predecessor.

The new engine is described as Audi’s most advanced four-cylinder production car engine to date. It runs 1.2 bar of turbocharger boost pressure, twin counterbalancing rotation shafts, a two-stage valve lift system with 30deg of camshaft adjustment on the inlet side and 60deg on the exhaust side, a new injection system to deliver fuel to each cylinder depending on throttle load and a 6800rpm redline. It’s also claimed to weigh 5kg less than the engine it replaces"


The old S3 had a EA113 K04, with more power than the Golf R, assuming that was due to boost difference. The new one I am assuming would be the new Gen3 EA888 K04, probably will be higher pressure than whatever the VW version of the engine...IIRC there were no K04 EA888 before in both Audi or VW?
 

KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
Heard that too, but have to wonder when you see APR talk about the limits the manifold places on stuff like the loba turbos. Would that not hold true because of the water jacket?

Or even stuff about the gtx3076 wheel flowing too much for its turbine wheel. Wouldn't the stock built in manifold pose a similar restriction?

The water jacket would only prevent 'restriction' if absolute egt that is safe at a cumbustion level for the motor exceeds sace levels for other materials.. my guess the loba manifolds are a restriction due to lack of flow capability. The waterjacket would cool material and allow higher sustained egt.

I dont agree that the gtx3076r flows too much for its turbine wheel. There is a calculation for the differential for compressor and turbine wheel sizes and it shouldnt exceed a certain ratio but I dont recall what the ratio is off the top of my head. The 3076 is fantastic, although i wonder if the 3071 in billet form is missmatched.
 
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Halvie

WOOSA
The water jacket would only prevent 'restriction' if absolute egt that is safe at a cumbustion level for the motor exceeds sace levels for other materials.. my guess the loba manifolds are a restriction due to lack of flow capability. The waterjacket would cool material and allow higher sustained egt.

I dont agree that the gtx3076r flows too much for its turbine wheel. There is a calculation for the differential for compressor and turbine wheel sizes and it shouldnt exceed a certain ratio but I dont recall what the ratio is off the top of my head. The 3076 is fantastic, although i wonder if the 3071 in billet form is missmatched.

Just what I have read on a lot of other forums for cars that can actually run them *cough cough :(*. Most suggest either gtx3071 or gtx35xx. Say it chokes up top. Same thing you read about the hta3076.
 

KurtP1

Go Kart Champion
Just what I have read on a lot of other forums for cars that can actually run them *cough cough :(*. Most suggest either gtx3071 or gtx35xx. Say it chokes up top. Same thing you read about the hta3076.

the gtx3076 doesnt choke up top for the powerband it creates. not as much power as the gtx35r, but most just bypass the 3071r.....
 

rowdyzombie

Go Kart Newbie
Say what

That's pretty lame if US engine doesn't have dual injection as it'll still have carbon buildup which is a major design flaw. Why put a plastic oilpan as that keeps the heat in the oil instead of metal which dissipates heat.
 

GunMetalGTI

Go Kart Champion
the new model golf looks blahh....and im happy with the engine I have so I will pass on caring until another five years. Nice post though. I guess we will just have to wait and see if VW will put any real power into these gti's from stock into the future. And when I say real.....I mean hang with the ever increasing numbers that their competition is putting up.

All I care about is maybe getting a new intake manifold eventually for my mk6.....new engine....I'll pass for now.
 

TheCastle

Ready to race!
I think the EA888 Gen 3 engines are interesting. But everything indicates that at least in the US were looking at probably 210hp on the next gen GTI with a possible option to get a 230hp motor.

What I hold out hope for is an R or S3 with the 2.5L turbo :) But we'll probably see a R with 300hp on a EA888 Gen 3 which will be okay by me. Maybe we'll see valvetronic and FI added back in on the R. Give you more of a reason to upgrade.
 

ViRtUaLheretic

╭∩╮(︶__︶&#6
disregard mkvii, acquire S3
 
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