Good thread. I am looking at COBB too. I am stock right now and just want a little more oomph. I am planning on doing a tune only to start with more mods potentially in the future. I see that COBB does seem to be updating their tunes on a regular basis so maybe soon the OTS version will address the timing issues?
6
APR vs COBB
- Thread starter theclutch
- Start date
theclutch
Go Kart Newbie
Hmm... lots of good comments and THANKS for this!
I have no intentions of going past Stage 2 (at most). This car is my daily/commuter/winter car and I'm just looking to make it a little bit faster compared to our other cars which are a lot faster (but necessarily as enjoyable to drive).
It appears that the OTS tuning for the COBB is not as good as the APR. But won't that change over time? Not sure I'm willing to wait for COBB to catch up though. This could easily be a year or two. But I assume since it's software that it will only get better in time the same way that APR seems to have just released a "newer" version of their software recently.
I was wondering about the gauges and you confirmed it, thanks. I.e. - since the COBB was taking the info from the OBD2 connector, that there would be some sort of delay. Seems like a nice gadget to have, however.
Hardware-wise, if ever I have any issues, the thought process was that I want to be able to say to COBB or APR that I'm using their hardware for ease of debugging. Maybe this is a moot point. It seems like the intake and downpipe would only be the hardware that I'd want.
<sigh> It doesn't seem to be an easy decision either way...
WalkerT
Go Kart Champion
Mine laid down 257whp and 320wtq
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104340
Dyno and details in this thread.
http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104340
Dyno and details in this thread.
dafuture
Go Kart Champion
Having one company's hardware won't make a difference for debugging, outside of the Cobb Stage 1+/2 tunes that require the larger MAF that is only available on Cobb's intake. I definitely think that Cobb's software will get better over time, but remember that the other companies have been at it with these tunes for ~6-7 years now. APR's update was to get more power out of their tunes. Otherwise, their previous tunes ran perfectly in terms of drive-ability. If you don't plan on anything past basic Stage 2 with bolt ons, it doesn't sound like the Cobb will be very useful for you. I think you'd probably get a little frustrated having to have your car retuned each time you add a part versus just having a nice, solid, quick tune and enjoying the power gains.
I know you said you didn't want to, but I will mention though that you may want to consider some of the other normal suspects as well, namely GIAC, Revo and Uni. All three make great stuff, and their tunes may be a little less expensive, if a little less powerful. I truly see no need to go with hardware from a single company. IMHO, some of the best stuff out there is made by Neuspeed, a company that doesn't even make tunes.
lilonespaz
Drag Race Newbie
Just remember APRS software update to this new one took over 4 years...
If you want to make COBB nice you will have to get protuned/etuned by a dealer to get the full potential.
COBB OTS tunes will never be as aggressive as the other tuners, its the main draw for their dealer protunes.
Since there are no labor charges on the AP, if you bought it from a place with a return policy you could try it out and just uninstall and return if you weren't happy with it. That seems like the lowest-risk option and is what I did except I ended up really liking the AP and kept it.
Alex@Stratified
Go Kart Newbie
And this is exactly why we purchased the development car, are posting results on the findings, and offer a pro-tune for only $50 on top of the cost of the AP. With a lot of the other tunes that are done at a dealer you don't get to see how the car is running. The ignition corrections happen there with other tunes targeting the same power levels and running on the same fuel - you just don't see them. So already you are more aware with the handheld and can seek out to improve the tune for your specific car.
The OTS maps for the other platforms are not what people write home about with COBB either.. What they write home about are the ease of use, datalogging, and customised tunes from tuners that do have lots of years of experience and get to see data from lots of cars all over the world.
The AP hardware, logging, and tuning interface gives me the tools to perfect the tune, remotely and through iterations for the exact data coming from the customer's car whether the car is bone stock, big turbo, regardless of what brand parts it has.
Also keep in mind that not all fuel quality is the same. 93 octane in Texas knocks more than 91 octane in Colorado.
These are the nuances that custom/pro tuning addresses and this can be done via the COBB AP. This can also be done completely remotely without having to strap your car to a dyno especially at bolt on power levels.
thewalkingdad
Ready to race!
I'm going through the same decision, APR vs Cobb. I've read a ton of the different threads and at this point I'm leaning Cobb.
I'm not building a race car, so the fact that the Cobb tune isn't as fast doesn't bother me as much. Besides, I'm buying the Cobb (w/intake) knowing that the next step for me is an e-tune (which admittedly destroys my "I'm not building a race car" argument).
And the resell value of the AP is definitely a plus. I don't plan on selling it, but it's nice to know my initial "investment" retains some value.
I'm not building a race car, so the fact that the Cobb tune isn't as fast doesn't bother me as much. Besides, I'm buying the Cobb (w/intake) knowing that the next step for me is an e-tune (which admittedly destroys my "I'm not building a race car" argument).
And the resell value of the AP is definitely a plus. I don't plan on selling it, but it's nice to know my initial "investment" retains some value.
Saw this and wanted to add my 2cents.
I'm running a slew of different branded parts of my car including APR, Uni, GFB, 034, and AWE (this is just my engine we are talking about here). I started with an APR intake and didn't like how the recirculation hose didn't sit squarely into the stage 2 portion. Switched to Unitronic and it fit very well after I had to the cut the intake hose piping that wasn't quite the right length.
I had an APR turbo back exhaust and overtime noticed leaks at every single slip-fit joint and then tried Unitronic who used V-clamps. Now no leaks and flawless fitment.
Throughout this process I have always stuck with APR tuning. I'm currently using their k04 and it's flawless. Really compliments the car well on and off the track.
You mentioned all the different tunes that you'd be able to utilize with the Cobb AP, however, how many tunes are you gonna need? I have my 91, 93, 100, and stock/valet/etc. I use my 91 here in California, and maybe 100 at the track, other than that I never switch tunes. None of this high boost versus low boot business, just one tune that optimized for an intake, high-flow cat and intake. Just because you have access to more tunes doesn't give you greater value if you're not going to use them.
For the price of a Protune you might as well get a custom tune anywhere including 034 or any other reputable tuner. You're probably going to pay the same and you'll be limited to the tunes the build out for you. So if you're tuned on 91 but you want to run 100, well you're just going to be wasting your money since we all know the tune extracts the power from the octane.
With APR you've already got your tunes, you bolt on the minimal hardware requirements they have (intake, DP, IC), you have torque by gear management and refinement through the rev band, you're dialed in at this point and just have bury your foot and hold on.
I'm running a slew of different branded parts of my car including APR, Uni, GFB, 034, and AWE (this is just my engine we are talking about here). I started with an APR intake and didn't like how the recirculation hose didn't sit squarely into the stage 2 portion. Switched to Unitronic and it fit very well after I had to the cut the intake hose piping that wasn't quite the right length.
I had an APR turbo back exhaust and overtime noticed leaks at every single slip-fit joint and then tried Unitronic who used V-clamps. Now no leaks and flawless fitment.
Throughout this process I have always stuck with APR tuning. I'm currently using their k04 and it's flawless. Really compliments the car well on and off the track.
You mentioned all the different tunes that you'd be able to utilize with the Cobb AP, however, how many tunes are you gonna need? I have my 91, 93, 100, and stock/valet/etc. I use my 91 here in California, and maybe 100 at the track, other than that I never switch tunes. None of this high boost versus low boot business, just one tune that optimized for an intake, high-flow cat and intake. Just because you have access to more tunes doesn't give you greater value if you're not going to use them.
For the price of a Protune you might as well get a custom tune anywhere including 034 or any other reputable tuner. You're probably going to pay the same and you'll be limited to the tunes the build out for you. So if you're tuned on 91 but you want to run 100, well you're just going to be wasting your money since we all know the tune extracts the power from the octane.
With APR you've already got your tunes, you bolt on the minimal hardware requirements they have (intake, DP, IC), you have torque by gear management and refinement through the rev band, you're dialed in at this point and just have bury your foot and hold on.
havocsrt
Ready to race!
So basically, you use APR the same as most who do not get a pro tune or an etune. Got it, APR has had a good reputation for the most part. The fact that the AP gives you a custom, made for your car tune, makes for a more enjoyable build and tune IMOP. I have had APR KO4 on my Audi A4 and i loved it. I now have an AP for my MK6, stock turbo, COBB CAI, full catless custom TBE and running stage 2 93. I love the idea that i can now get an etune or pro tune that will be for my car...not just a tune made for every MK6 with any mods....its custom. I can also data log, so when i add FMIC, i can re-tune my car.
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You still won't benefit from nuances of the big tuners such as torque by gear/ boost by gear etc. So you may get more power and not be able to use it.
lilonespaz
Drag Race Newbie
Im sure your pro-tuner can limit boost/torque to your needs... or are you not familiar with how tuning works?
Stage2Sasquatch
Go Kart Champion
This. They can absolutely do that. More so than APR can since APR has no idea what your specific mods are.