Final decision on brakes for Track Day

[TXBDan]

Ball joints, wheel speed sensor wires, etc.

I've seen people not do it and be fine, but it sure can't hurt.

 

[RacingManiac]

Here are my thoughts:


IMPORTANT: I highly recommend that you, and anyone else who tracks their cars, remove the front dust shields. The best evidence I can give on this is what happened to me when I ran Gingerman with and without dust shields. The first time, in 70 degree weather, with EBC Yellow pads (and Motul 600), I had brake fade within 2 laps. I pulled in after the third lap which was for cool down. When i got out, major smoke was coming out of my pads. Two years later, I ran Gingerman in near 90 degree weather, without dust shields, same pads (and SRF Fluid). Although I was running much harder, with stickier tires and much hotter weather, I had absolutely no fade after much longer sessions. Did the SRF fluid help? Maybe. But the biggest difference was no dust sheilds. Assuming anyone does this, make sure to wrap you surrounding components with heat reflective tape.

You must be going a lot faster(seeing your credential I don't doubt it neither) than I was at Gingerman. My brake held up ok at Gingerman earlier this year(60s-70s Deg day), running stock fluid(fresh) and Carbotech XP10 front/1521 rear on street summer tires. My car is only stage 1 tune also... I did not notice any noticeable drop in braking performance of noteceably worse pedal travel. I think for a novice it might not be as bad as long as you are not riding the brake the whole time...

 

[soldier0829]

I've had pretty good luck on ss lines, ATE 200 and Hawk pads but I am easy on brakes. The only experience I have had with stoptech pads is on my Audi and they work well enough on the street but are not the best on the track. I hear the Stoptech fluid is actually pretty good though. A nice alternative to ATE 200/Superblue.

 

[Gunkata]

You must be going a lot faster(seeing your credential I don't doubt it neither) than I was at Gingerman. My brake held up ok at Gingerman earlier this year(60s-70s Deg day), running stock fluid(fresh) and Carbotech XP10 front/1521 rear on street summer tires. My car is only stage 1 tune also... I did not notice any noticeable drop in braking performance of noteceably worse pedal travel. I think for a novice it might not be as bad as long as you are not riding the brake the whole time...

dude, you were stopping on a DIME with that setup.

 

[jmk0071]

What exactly would you tape and why - couldn't you just clean the dust off at the end of the day?

TXBDan told you what to tape up. As for why, because your components can melt. There is a tremendous amount of heat from the rotors when you track a car. The dust shields substantially reduce this because they block much of the rotor heat from the components, even though their primary street purpose is to block brake pad dust. The heat reflective tape should avoid heat damage to the components from the rotors.

 

[Bruno2000]

Here are my thoughts:

1. Assuming safety is important to you, get a closed face helmet. Here is a basic Bell Helmet, a quality product, on sale for $259: http://www.infmotorsports.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=BEL-20101

2. I have no experience with Stop Tech pads. However, I have had good experience with EBC Yellow Stuff for the street and track when the dust sheilds are removed and with quality brake fluid. (More on this later...) The EBC Yellows are loud at first on the street but after one track day, they will be very quiet on the street thereafter.

3. Especially for Blackhawk and Road American, I would definitely get Motul RBF 600 or better. I spent $70 on SRF Fluid which is probably overkill for you application, although Blackhawk is brutal on fluid. Motul is much less.

4. I don't think SS lines are necessary, especially if you are just starting out (assuming your oem lines are in good shape). I've tracked for over two years without them and been fine. That said, it is a good idea.

IMPORTANT: I highly recommend that you, and anyone else who tracks their cars, remove the front dust shields. The best evidence I can give on this is what happened to me when I ran Gingerman with and without dust shields. The first time, in 70 degree weather, with EBC Yellow pads (and Motul 600), I had brake fade within 2 laps. I pulled in after the third lap which was for cool down. When i got out, major smoke was coming out of my pads. Two years later, I ran Gingerman in near 90 degree weather, without dust shields, same pads (and SRF Fluid). Although I was running much harder, with stickier tires and much hotter weather, I had absolutely no fade after much longer sessions. Did the SRF fluid help? Maybe. But the biggest difference was no dust sheilds. Assuming anyone does this, make sure to wrap you surrounding components with heat reflective tape.

Lastly, a proper brake set up at Blackhawk and RA is critically important but for different reasons. Without getting into the technical aspects, I believe you are more likely to get brake fade at Blackhawk but the consequences of brake fade at Road American would likely be much worse. Either way, don't mess around with your brakes--particularly at these tracks.

Best of luck...

I test drove the EBC Red stuff pads on track without dust sheilds and I most agree, without it, it do a big difference, no more heat troubles.

I loved the red stuff, so, I ordered the yellow stuff and installed them 2 days ago, so far very good grip without any squeals. Cant wait to test them on track. If it grips more that redstuff, and don't fade faster that them, It will be the ultimate occasional tracks / street pads for me.

Over the hawks hps, and the screamer hawks hps plus, this last one had some nicceee grip, but WAY too louder.

 

[RacingManiac]

Carbotech XP10 IMO is not streetable....I've ran them in DD here and there between track/autoX, and a trip to Tail of the Dragon. It is loud and dusty...

 

[legandrex]

Lots of good advice here...thanks guys. I am not sure I have appropriate funds to this properly at this time. Part of me says just change out the pads and fluid and get a $150 helmet and drive like a Sally in the novice group so I can say I did it, but part of me says why do it if you aren't going to do it right. I know many of you wouldn't enjoy that kind of teaser day, but since it would be my first official day it may be a good way to get my feet wet. More to think about I guess.

If my Mach 1 wasn't such a garage queen I would just put Cobra R brakes on it, install some cooling ducts, and drive the snot out of it. However, part of me is thinking about selling it and getting a Golf R when my GTI lease is up in two years. So I am trying to maintain maximum resale on it. I drive it about 30 miles of month...it really isn't as much fun to drive it now that I have the GTI.

Cheers

 

[RacingManiac]

Get a Helmet, pads and fluid and go have fun.... Enjoy your car....

 

[the bruce]

Here is what I plan to do and tell me if it is necessary or not.

1. Helmet-looking at a basic Zamp JA-2 open face helmet(meets requirements)-decent helmet or should I spend more money for something better?
2. Stoptech Street Performance pad replacement for front and rear
3. Fluid Change-not sure if to go with ATE Super Blue or Motul 600 fluid-don't really want to have to flush more than once a year so.
4. USP stainless lines-necessary?


My budget is limited ...

If budget is limited don't waste too much money on an expensive helmet.
Most 50 $ helmets will do the job if you run a current car with lots of airbags.
Just try the helmet before you purchase it.

Money is much better spend on decent tires and brake pads + ventilation.

IMPORTANT: I highly recommend that you, and anyone else who tracks their cars, remove the front dust shields.

True. :thumbsup:


Read this very good review of a mixed road/track brake:

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167216

Keep in mind Mk.V = Mk.VI, at least on front.


At least you want:

- removing brake shields
- RS3 vent
- proper pads on front*
- Tyrol solid caliper bushings
- Ate Blue or 200 (same stuff, different color only, use them alternately)
- set XDS to low and brake assist threshold to '02'
- proper tires (PSS, AD08, R-S3)


* Avoid EBC Green and Red :yikes:; I highly recommend Endless MX72. :thumbsup:
When it comes to brake pads you get what you pay for.
No need to change pads on rear, particularly not on a 2009/2010 with
the 286x12 TRW rear setup. The current 272x10 Bosch may be less
reliable on track, but not a similar issue as it is on front.

 

[RacingManiac]

If budget is limited don't waste too much money on an expensive helmet.
Most 50 $ helmets will do the job if you run a current car with lots of airbags.
Just try the helmet before you purchase it.

This is not necessarily true with track days, at least not in US. Depends on who organizes it, they will mandate what standard of helmet you need to have to run. Most will required Snell rated helmet. Some clubs allows for older Snell standard(SA2000 or SA2005). For autocrossing DOT approved helmet will work, even M helmets, but most track days don't allow M helmets. Buying helmet, it probably is a good idea to get the cheapest helmet with the newest Snell standard so you can use it for 5-10 years.

 

[legandrex]

TXBDan told you what to tape up. As for why, because your components can melt. There is a tremendous amount of heat from the rotors when you track a car. The dust shields substantially reduce this because they block much of the rotor heat from the components, even though their primary street purpose is to block brake pad dust. The heat reflective tape should avoid heat damage to the components from the rotors.

What heat reflective tape brand do you suggest? Any preferred vendor to get it from?

 

[legandrex]

So this is what I am thinking for my novice group, moderate paced first track day on stock Pirelli's.

Stoptech Street Performance pad for front and rear
Remove front dust shields
Wrap vital components with reflective tape
Motul RF600 fluid change

Knowing the brakes will not be overly strong I will attempt to drive at a moderate pace at best and see how much I enjoy it.

Most likely going to do March of Dimes Drive for Babies event at Road America in October or MVP event there in same month.

FYI-HOERR is doing a track day at Blackhawk on the 29th of September and the price is $175. That is a pretty hot deal if anyone can make it. That weekend probably won't work for me...outside chance though.

 

[jmk0071]

What heat reflective tape brand do you suggest? Any preferred vendor to get it from?

I had a shop do this, along with some other things, so I don't have a recomendation. Maybe someone else here does? Also, check the Mark V forum for information on this subject.

 

[jmk0071]

So this is what I am thinking for my novice group, moderate paced first track day on stock Pirelli's.

Stoptech Street Performance pad for front and rear
Remove front dust shields
Wrap vital components with reflective tape
Motul RF600 fluid change

Knowing the brakes will not be overly strong I will attempt to drive at a moderate pace at best and see how much I enjoy it.

Most likely going to do March of Dimes Drive for Babies event at Road America in October or MVP event there in same month.

Listen to your instructor on how to apply your brakes. What you don't want to do is ride the brakes. You want to be on the brakes during the shortest time possible necessary to get the job done. Some people who think they are going easy on the brakes are the ones who ride the brakes thinking they are babying them. In either way, with brand new pads and no front dust shields, you should have more than enough brake pad to go a full weekend (if not multiple weekends) without worries. Just concentrate on learning, be safe, and have fun.

Best of luck...