K04 Valve Float

[syonxwf]

Rather than rise a necro thread from 2-3 years ago, I'm going to make my own because it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

Just went K04 last weekend, and I appear to have valve float, but want to see if there is anything else I can try before going the spring route. I have not had a chance to physically check my springs yet, that's saved for last because I don't want to pull my shit apart at the moment.

The vitals and important info:
2013 GTI, though the engine was replaced at 1800 miles (I don't feel like explaining that one right now) - significance here is that I don't know what motor they put in my car, but I do however have an updated tensioner (visually confirmed), if that makes any difference.
69k miles
Carbon cleaning done at 60k
New OEM Bosch Coil packs within last 500 miles
New NGK Plugs (the ones that start with B and I'm too lazy to search) gapped to .024 per APR, less than 200 miles on them.
Recently replaced LPFP control module due to an issue where the car would start and then drop to 500rpm and die, unless I feathered the gas, at which point it would come back up and drive/idle fine. I have read that the LPFP can be damaged if the control module isn't working for a while, though mine was only a couple weeks...I have yet to replace the LPFP because I don't think throwing money at the car will help, and I'd rather use that $350 towards valve springs.

Car pops and stutters from 5k-6k (I don't usually go much above 6.2k), and I only notice it in 3rd and 4th gear. I do not get any CEL's when this happens, and I was able to replicate it with T/C off - The significance of this is that I tried twice with T/C on, 4th gear pull, and the T/C light came on around 5-5.5k, but it most definitely does not feel like spinning/hopping when T/C is off, it feels like it's misfiring.
Prior to going K04, I was still getting some random misfires usually between 3-4k, this happening as recent as a week prior, but I couldn't ever get it to replicate reliably. This "misfire" feeling with K04 I also cannot replicate every time, only 50% of the time it happens.

Am I just an idiot and it's hopping in 4th above 5k, or is it most likely Valve float like I assume it is?
I got the low output file yesterday and it drives great again now and I have yet to notice any misfire-like feelings, but it's only been a day and it's been wet (so I haven't been able to get on it).

 

[SoWalGTI]

I didn't see where you mentioned what software you were running? Still the APR file in your sig?

 

[lilonespaz]

If your engine is a 2013 or newer you should have the updated springs. I think the weaker springs were used on 2010-2011.

 

[syonxwf]

I didn't see where you mentioned what software you were running? Still the APR file in your sig?

I think that's what I have, not entirely sure...possibly 3.2? I originally flashed last friday with the High Output file (and was told launch control wasn't available). I then reflashed with 91 LO and 91 HO yesterday, with launch control back on, so my assumption is that it was either 3.1 or 3.2, whatever the latest available is.

If your engine is a 2013 or newer you should have the updated springs. I think the weaker springs were used on 2010-2011.

Well, the problem is I don't know when the engine was manufactured. It was replaced at 1800 miles (in june/july of 2013). I just text messaged my cousin to ask him if he knows, though I think I've asked before and he said he's not sure. (He's a service adviser that oversaw my engine replacement.)

I wouldn't think they would have replaced it with one that was manufactured that long prior, I don't think they usually keep that kind of stock on hand (in fact, the engine I got was the last in the country and had to be shipped from the east coast because of low availability), but I have no idea truthfully.

Is it typical for the CEL to flash when you are getting misfires from valve float? Or will they at least appear in a log? I can try to get it logged this week at some point and report back findings, just have to get my buddy to meet up with me.

 

[lilonespaz]

I think that's what I have, not entirely sure...possibly 3.2? I originally flashed last friday with the High Output file (and was told launch control wasn't available). I then reflashed with 91 LO and 91 HO yesterday, with launch control back on, so my assumption is that it was either 3.1 or 3.2, whatever the latest available is.



Well, the problem is I don't know when the engine was manufactured. It was replaced at 1800 miles (in june/july of 2013). I just text messaged my cousin to ask him if he knows, though I think I've asked before and he said he's not sure. (He's a service adviser that oversaw my engine replacement.)

I wouldn't think they would have replaced it with one that was manufactured that long prior, I don't think they usually keep that kind of stock on hand (in fact, the engine I got was the last in the country and had to be shipped from the east coast because of low availability), but I have no idea truthfully.

Is it typical for the CEL to flash when you are getting misfires from valve float? Or will they at least appear in a log? I can try to get it logged this week at some point and report back findings, just have to get my buddy to meet up with me.

Check the stamp on the engine. There should be a sticker showing the production. Yeah run some logs would be best..

It may just be a bad coil pack or spark plug. If you run logs you can see where the miss fire is and move the coil packs and see if its the same spot or traveled with it.
New oem coils should be okay but most people get the Audi R8 coils (the red top ones) as they seem to hold up better. It could also be a fouled plug or improperly gaped plug.


But yeah get some logs and then check plugs to see if you have a chipped/broken electrode or excessive wear etc.

 

[syonxwf]

Check the stamp on the engine. There should be a sticker showing the production. Yeah run some logs would be best..

It may just be a bad coil pack or spark plug. If you run logs you can see where the miss fire is and move the coil packs and see if its the same spot or traveled with it.
New oem coils should be okay but most people get the Audi R8 coils (the red top ones) as they seem to hold up better. It could also be a fouled plug or improperly gaped plug.


But yeah get some logs and then check plugs to see if you have a chipped/broken electrode or excessive wear etc.

Coil packs are all brand new, replaced in the last 200 miles, and plugs have less than 100 on them. I checked the gap on each and made sure they were all .024 before I installed them, and they were installed after k04 was done this weekend in hopes that it would fix this issue.
I'll check with my buddy and run some logs though.

Any idea where that stamp is on the engine by chance?

 

[ThatVWGuy]

FLtrooper had a few good posts on valve float on this forum and the vortex which have stuck with me as he had a GLI that was the same model year as mine. What I remember is that it came on at 5000 RPM and the car started to feel pretty crappy at that point with lights flashing on the dash. I even think he made some Youtube videos. I'll take a look to see if I can find any of his old posts (he sold that car and since moved on), but the concern I had over valve float is part of the reason I stayed away from K04 as GLI's appeared to be more vulnerable to the weaker springs.

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80708

 

[GreyGti1990]

I'm beginning to think my issue isn't valve float as when its warm outside it doesn't occur.

Are you on winter tires right now?

I've read that the TC system can't be 100% turned off. When I leave TC on and lose grip the light flashes and then I get what feel like misfires but with no CEL. When I manually turn TC off via the button I sometimes get what feel like misfires around 4.5k-6k rpms. But then again sometimes I don't. And I don't feel the loss of traction either. But I'm thinking is has to do with the type of road I'm on and the grip I'm getting with the tires. This morning I did a few 3rd gear pulls up to 6k and 1 4th gear pull with zero misfires. I donno lol but I'm thinking its the stupid TC system fighting with me at times.

 

[lilonespaz]

Just because you bought new coils/plugs doesnt mean one wasnt a bad one

 

[sauceman101]

Additionally I think there are some good sets of valves in the 10-11 batch and probably some weaker valves in the later production dates as well. I have a 2010 and have the stronger set that won't float with K04, was amazed to see that when I pull the cam cradle

 

[adema69]

.24 gap might be little on the low side. Switch to ngk bkr7e plugs and gap them to .28 or .32 see if this helps.

 

[fast2ghl]

.24 gap might be little on the low side. Switch to ngk bkr7e plugs and gap them to .28 or .32 see if this helps.

^ THIS.

Gap at .28..... Get Audi R8 Coil packs. Rinse, repeat.

OP, I know that you say you've got brand new OEM coils but they suck at k04 levels and above and will likely fail you even if brand new, I've seen it before on here and locally with friends cars.

So give that a try.

 

[bart2278]

I'm having a similar issue, except I'll get the CEL and misfire codes. It's not everytime I go above 6k, but it's frequent enough that it's annoying. I have an f23T though, with Eurodyne tune. I'm also having a weird issue that when I'm in 3-6th gear and I get on the boost, my boost gauge shows that it has boost, but the car goes no faster. Almost like it's losing leaking somewhere. The weird part about it is that I can let off the gas get right back on it and it will boost properly. So in short I'm kind of jacking this thread.

 

[Nezoid]

@bart - Have you done any logs with Eurodyne? Do some 3rd gear pulls, 4th gear if you can do it safely and post it. (2k-ish rpm to redline).

Is your boost gauge reading from a tap or ecu?

Also if you are running the base F23 tune, I highly recommend hooking up with Andy (Link in sig) and send him the logs and info of your car. He will be able to do some magic with it. At least he did with mine.

 

[CiHKAL1]

I think that's what I have, not entirely sure...possibly 3.2? I originally flashed last friday with the High Output file (and was told launch control wasn't available). I then reflashed with 91 LO and 91 HO yesterday, with launch control back on, so my assumption is that it was either 3.1 or 3.2, whatever the latest available is.



Well, the problem is I don't know when the engine was manufactured. It was replaced at 1800 miles (in june/july of 2013). I just text messaged my cousin to ask him if he knows, though I think I've asked before and he said he's not sure. (He's a service adviser that oversaw my engine replacement.)

I wouldn't think they would have replaced it with one that was manufactured that long prior, I don't think they usually keep that kind of stock on hand (in fact, the engine I got was the last in the country and had to be shipped from the east coast because of low availability), but I have no idea truthfully.

Is it typical for the CEL to flash when you are getting misfires from valve float? Or will they at least appear in a log? I can try to get it logged this week at some point and report back findings, just have to get my buddy to meet up with me.

If you misfire enough during a pull you will get a flashing CEL and a code thrown for misfires.

I had valve float issues going K04 APR V3.1 after 10k miles. The easy way for me to tell is I could "roll" the pedal nice and easy to wot without issue. If I was aggressive or stomped it I'd get misfires. When you quickly move towards WOT the system aggressively specifies boost in more of a stair step fashion than a gradual upward trend. This in turn can create more setpoint overshoot by the actual boost. All of this depends on how an engineer tunes the proportional integral derivative controller, or controllers if a cascade scheme is used. Anyway a significant and abrupt condition change can temporarily throw off the system, in your case the valve or valve having trouble seating. A similar occurrence can happen with a positive displacement pump with an internal relief valve. The valve has a cracking pressure for a given flow rate. If pressure on the outlet of the pump spikes enough and the relief opens significantly it can oscillate open and close. Sometimes the valve won't reseat properly until the pump is stopped and the outlet pressure of the pump is relieved.

I trended the boost parameters against throttle position and misfires. Check your plugs, use APRs guide for verifying the springs, and do some more related logs. If that doesn't work start logging how you're injectors are performing to hunt for evidence of a tired HPFP. Lastly, work with the company who developed the tune!

.24 gap might be little on the low side. Switch to ngk bkr7e plugs and gap them to .28 or .32 see if this helps.

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