MASTER CLUTCH APPLICATION GUIDE - WHAT DO WE REALLY NEED?

[skotcoop]

Had a nice long talk with Jon from Southbend Clutch today. As others have mentioned, he is very knowledgeable and was super helpful. He not only answered my questions, but gave great advice and some insight on the past development of the MK6 kits from the non silent to the silent designs. I'm going to dump some info that Jon shared with me on their clutch offerings that might be helpful for others.

1. A stage 2 endurance clutch disk will last a bit longer than a daily kit. The catch however is that when the clutch IS done, the flywheel and pressure plate will have sustained more wear than if a daily was used.
2. For all kits, when the clutch is done and needs to be replaced, it is always advised to clean up both the pressure plate and the flywheel to ensure a healthy clutch life and meet the torque holding capabilities. There are exceptions, but resurfacing is best practice as we all know.
3. Southbend clutch will rebuild your kits. This involves sending them all of your components and having the flywheel and pressure plate resurfaced and balanced. They will also compensate for the loss of material by providing a slightly thicker friction disk and/or provide some spacers of sorts to make sure the clamping load is the same as a new kit. Turn around time is around 2-3 business days from when they receive it. This does not include shipping time

Overall, never hesitate to give him a call. I left a message one night after hours and received a call back the next morning promptly.

With that, I plan to upgrade to a stage 2 endurance. With the APR k04 3.1 and other high torque k04 files, you are riding awful close to the torque capacity. I am only getting intermittent slip when hitting peak torque. It is only a pause and it resume accelerating once I push past 4500 RPM. While it is "sufficient" to hold the power, as it wears normally, you slowly lose holding capacity as the disk thins and the clamping load reduces as a result of having to keep contact on the disk. This is with all clutch disks, but having more headroom will allow you to stay ahead of the curve longer. If you are a stage 2 user and don't plan to go k04, I'm sure the daily will be sufficient with good life.

Cool thanks for the info. I'm considering going to SB because I'm not too thrilled with my BFI stage 3 with SMFW. Its noisy in every gear with only 1 034 subframe mount and with the fluidampr. The noise only gets worse with the AC on. Thats to say nothing about the chirping on engagement. Guess theres a reason it was $900 shipped :thumbdown:

 

[JT641]

Cool thanks for the info. I'm considering going to SB because I'm not too thrilled with my BFI stage 3 with SMFW. Its noisy in every gear with only 1 034 subframe mount and with the fluidampr. The noise only gets worse with the AC on. Thats to say nothing about the chirping on engagement. Guess theres a reason it was $900 shipped :thumbdown:

Mine is only noticeably noisy when I have the A/C on and I have the SB Stage 2 Endurance with SPM Engine and Trans Mounts and HPA Subframe mount and I still have yet to install my fluidampr. So I can only imagine it will be quieter with that installed

BTW I bought My SB Stage 2 Endurance from HS Tuning for about $1200, You can also check with Ringer Racing for SB Clutches as he gives forum discounts

Edit Bear in mind there are 2 versions of the endurance I have the part# ending in OFE as seen here (See Descriptions of each on this page) http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc?productId=540

I also paid extra for the factory upgraded 1 piece release bearing (more durable than the 2 piece plastic one that comes standard in most kits)

 

[kthor7031]

Mine is only noticeably noisy when I have the A/C on and I have the SB Stage 2 Endurance with SPM Engine and Trans Mounts and HPA Subframe mount and I still have yet to install my fluidampr. So I can only imagine it will be quieter with that installed

BTW I bought My SB Stage 2 Endurance from HS Tuning for about $1200, You can also check with Ringer Racing for SB Clutches as he gives forum discounts

Edit Bear in mind there are 2 versions of the endurance I have the part# ending in OFE as seen here (See Descriptions of each on this page) http://www.ringer-racing.com/product.sc?productId=540

I also paid extra for the factory upgraded 1 piece release bearing (more durable than the 2 piece plastic one that comes standard in most kits)

Are there any concerns with getting one of the endurance kits over the other? Is one default? I have only ever seen one.

 

[Jared32]

Anyone tried the ringer-racing clutch?


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[JT641]

Are there any concerns with getting one of the endurance kits over the other? Is one default? I have only ever seen one.

One is going to be more durable than the other. As far as which one is the default that would depend on who you order it from. When I bought mine there was only one version of the endurance. If you plan on going stage 2 or K04 I would go with same one I have as I've gotten a lot of miles out of mine. Talk to Mike from Ringer Racing He'll help you make the best choice.

 

[Das Bear]

Anyone tried the ringer-racing clutch?


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I'm using their kit right now. I'll have to go back and look at which series it was. I'm running a Frankenturbo F23T with all bolt ons and it's handling power fine, both on the street and at the track.

One issue, though, and I'm not sure if it's the product or the install, but occasionally it's difficult to pull the shifter out of and into first and second gear. Feels like the clutch isn't disengaging all the way. I've read it could be due to a weak slave cylinder or a bad clutch alignment tool.

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[Jared32]

Would you recommend it? I'm looking at it pretty seriously. Does it chatter much? Do you have stock flywheel or single mass


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[Das Bear]

I have the single mass that came in the kit. They use a modified Clutchmasters kit, so it's the CM single mass.

The chatter is definitely noticeable, but I'm not sure how it compares to other kits. My car is built more in mind for the track, so I didn't take NVH into consideration at all.

I'd definitely recommend the kit, but no word on how long they last just yet. Its grab and pedal feel is similar to stock. I hear the CM FX450 kits last only 10-15k miles and these supposedly will last at least double is what I've heard. I'd buy an OEM clutch alignment tool and the metal single piece throw out bearing instead of what they supply.

The issues that I'm having with the shifter are most likely the LSD install.

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[Jared32]

I have the single mass that came in the kit. They use a modified Clutchmasters kit, so it's the CM single mass.

The chatter is definitely noticeable, but I'm not sure how it compares to other kits. My car is built more in mind for the track, so I didn't take NVH into consideration at all.

I'd definitely recommend the kit, but no word on how long they last just yet. Its grab and pedal feel is similar to stock. I hear the CM FX450 kits last only 10-15k miles and these supposedly will last at least double is what I've heard. I'd buy an OEM clutch alignment tool and the metal single piece throw out bearing instead of what they supply.

The issues that I'm having with the shifter are most likely the LSD install.

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That's good to know thanks for the input!

 

[JT641]

The issues that I'm having with the shifter are most likely the LSD install.

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Were did you come up with the idea it might be the LSD install? (I have a Wavetrac LSD) Reason I ask is I sometimes have problems shifting up or down like I'm hitting a wall, going to be installing the ECS Tuning Clutch Bleeder, APR shifter cable bracket and Fluidampr and see if that helps.

 

[Das Bear]

Were did you come up with the idea it might be the LSD install? (I have a Wavetrac LSD) Reason I ask is I sometimes have problems shifting up or down like I'm hitting a wall, going to be installing the ECS Tuning Clutch Bleeder, APR shifter cable bracket and Fluidampr and see if that helps.

I don't think it's the LSD itself but the process of it. The shop working on the trans broke a pin that held the shift tower and had to replace it.

I was able to eventually get it shifting okay, but after putting the ECS bleeder block on a few days back, it's like my clutch isn't disengaging again. The car vibrates and moves forward in first gear from a stop and I can't shift in or out if gears easily.

I've power bled it myself and had my dealership do it and the problem is still there. Bad slave maybe?

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[JT641]

I don't think it's the LSD itself but the process of it. The shop working on the trans broke a pin that held the shift tower and had to replace it.

I was able to eventually get it shifting okay, but after putting the ECS bleeder block on a few days back, it's like my clutch isn't disengaging again. The car vibrates and moves forward in first gear from a stop and I can't shift in or out if gears easily.

I've power bled it myself and had my dealership do it and the problem is still there. Bad slave maybe?

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That's weird!!! I hope mine doesn't do that. Should be getting it done along with the rest of those other items in the next couple weeks I'll post results after it's done

 

[K.SOZE]

Would you recommend it? I'm looking at it pretty seriously. Does it chatter much? Do you have stock flywheel or single mass


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Have you decided on a clutch kit? I just got the Ringer Racing Stage 4 kit. Have to install it but from the looks of it this thing is serious. Braided lines, CM high performance TOB, & nice beefy bleeder block.

 

[K.SOZE]

Were did you come up with the idea it might be the LSD install? (I have a Wavetrac LSD) Reason I ask is I sometimes have problems shifting up or down like I'm hitting a wall, going to be installing the ECS Tuning Clutch Bleeder, APR shifter cable bracket and Fluidampr and see if that helps.

How are you liking the Wavetrac? Everyone usually does the Peloquin (Quaife for the UK'ers), so I figured might as well give the Wave a try...

 

[JT641]

Well after finally getting the ECS Clutch Bleeder Block installed along with a few other things & 46,500 miles my clutch is slipping again

Question is do I have to replace everything again The Flywheel, P.P. Disc, & Release Bearing. I have the SB stage 2 endurance with the SMF