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Official Sway Bar Discussion Thread

torga

Autocross Champion
Crazy how much opinions differ on this. I had a 24mm rsb and oem front bar for a while and I thought the car handled like complete shit. When I put a 26mm front bar on, instant go kart. That was before I went ham with the rest of the suspension, now it's just amazing.

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Can you elaborate on your thoughts about the handling when only replacing the rear ARB?
 

1ashchuckton

Autocross Champion
Sort of like what oil is better thread. Lots of opinions & different likes.

For my use, street driving it was a very nice improvement. I'm sure adding a front bar & doing a set of coil-overs would be great along with a nice alignment that added a couple of degrees negative camber in front. That would be great. Although on the street it would be a compromise I wouldn't want to live with.

I have gone through this on a few other cars & I turned them into fine track cars. Trouble was they were terrible to live with as daily drivers. Just this old guys .02.
 

ChrisAttebery

Drag Racing Champion
There's my reason for going with the 22mm H&R. If I don't like it I'm blaming you Jay. ;)

Crazy how much opinions differ on this. I had a 24mm rsb and oem front bar for a while and I thought the car handled like complete shit. When I put a 26mm front bar on, instant go kart. That was before I went ham with the rest of the suspension, now it's just amazing.

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theclutch

Go Kart Newbie
Your car won't oversteer on an abrupt lift throttle in a corner? Maybe you weren't going fast enough. Just kidding..... ;)

Nope! :)

Crazy how much opinions differ on this. I had a 24mm rsb and oem front bar for a while and I thought the car handled like complete shit. When I put a 26mm front bar on, instant go kart. That was before I went ham with the rest of the suspension, now it's just amazing.

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It could be just your preference also.

034 Motorsport and Neuspeed made the RSB's I specified in my previous response as working in conjunction with the stock front sway bar. Given that this is their business (and supposed expertise), I would put more value in their judgement than the rest of us in the forums. Then why would H&R and others suggest a combination front and rear sway bar, one would ask? From my gathering, they're typically in conjunction with other modified suspension components. I was initially going with the H&R 26/24 but it's almost just amplifying the current front:rear ratio and making the car corner more flatly - which is nice if that's what you want, but still understeers flatly. My current setup (stock front and Neuspeed 28mm rear) still understeers but a lot less so.
 

jay745

track sl00t
Sort of like what oil is better thread. Lots of opinions & different likes.

For my use, street driving it was a very nice improvement. I'm sure adding a front bar & doing a set of coil-overs would be great along with a nice alignment that added a couple of degrees negative camber in front. That would be great. Although on the street it would be a compromise I wouldn't want to live with.

I have gone through this on a few other cars & I turned them into fine track cars. Trouble was they were terrible to live with as daily drivers. Just this old guys .02.

Yep, fine balance and it's very easy to ruin your street car. I'm way past that, I pretty much only drive it on the track nowadays.

There's my reason for going with the 22mm H&R. If I don't like it I'm blaming you Jay. ;)

Ha! Or just out a front bar on and go to a 24 in the rear, it's a dream.

Nope! :)



It could be just your preference also.

034 Motorsport and Neuspeed made the RSB's I specified in my previous response as working in conjunction with the stock front sway bar. Given that this is their business (and supposed expertise), I would put more value in their judgement than the rest of us in the forums. Then why would H&R and others suggest a combination front and rear sway bar, one would ask? From my gathering, they're typically in conjunction with other modified suspension components. I was initially going with the H&R 26/24 but it's almost just amplifying the current front:rear ratio and making the car corner more flatly - which is nice if that's what you want, but still understeers flatly. My current setup (stock front and Neuspeed 28mm rear) still understeers but a lot less so.

I'd firmly disagree that it understeers, but flatly. That's just not the case, the turn in is incredible, I don't have an issue at all with understeer

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ChrisAttebery

Drag Racing Champion
I got my H&R 22mm RSB today. I've been using a sway bar calculator to determine the relative strength compared to the stock RSB.

Here's the calculator:
http://www.gtsparkplugs.com/Sway-Bar-Calculator.html

I used the following measurements:
Width: 38"
Length of arm:
Stock 160mm (6.3")
H&R Low 170mm (6.7")
H&R High 150mm (5.9")

H&R 22mm should be 33% or 67% stiffer than stock.
H&R 24mm should be 82% or 136% stiffer.
Hotchkis 27mm (hollow) is 90%, 135% or 200% stiffer (according to their website).
034 25mm is 200% or 290% stiffer (According to their website).
 
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ChrisAttebery

Drag Racing Champion
I tried the H&R 22mm RSB for a couple weeks. It made a subtle difference to the car. It felt like it turned a bit better but it wasn't dramatic. IMHO that bar would pair up well with the stock front bar on a stock Golf or Beetle.

I found great deal on an 034 25.4mm rear sway bar and end links last week ($175). I figured for the price I could try it out. I got it installed on Friday morning.

I ran an AutoX on Saturday and along with the changes I made to the front suspension I feel like the car is well balanced. I could alter my lines by adjusting the throttle and got the slightest bit of off throttle oversteer when I was really pushing it. I never felt like the car was out of shape no matter how hard I pushed it.
 

theclutch

Go Kart Newbie
Hate to break it to you... that's NOT going to give you much of a difference that you can feel. For RSB, you want the 034 25.4 mm solid #034-402-1003 or the Neuspeed 28mm hollow #2502283. Leave the front sway bar stock. I currently run stock height with the stock suspension. There is ZERO way that anyone can "snap oversteer" this with my current setup. Believe me, I tried. I have roughly 20 years of track events.

22mm H&R RSB is barely bigger than the stock which is 21.7mm.

I tried the H&R 22mm RSB for a couple weeks. It made a subtle difference to the car. It felt like it turned a bit better but it wasn't dramatic. IMHO that bar would pair up well with the stock front bar on a stock Golf or Beetle.

I found great deal on an 034 25.4mm rear sway bar and end links last week ($175). I figured for the price I could try it out. I got it installed on Friday morning. ....

Sorry dude... I tried to tell you. :( That "feeling" you have that it's a subtle difference could be just your wanting to feel a difference due to the money spent. :( If you still have the stock front sway bar, let us know what you think. It seems that the "best" setup would be increasing camber at the front and the 034 or Neuspeed setup (both provide the same stiffness) to get the desired effect. Good luck either way and hope you find what you like the best.
 

ChrisAttebery

Drag Racing Champion
Yes you did. It's fine.

I'm running -1.4 camber all around. I'm also getting more camber in the corners from the added caster on the SuperPro bushings. With the 034 bar in the stiffest position the car is balanced well.

I might add a little more camber and reduce the front toe for next season. I'll wait until I've run a dedicated set of autoX/track tires before I do anything else to the car.

Sorry dude... I tried to tell you. :( That "feeling" you have that it's a subtle difference could be just your wanting to feel a difference due to the money spent. :( If you still have the stock front sway bar, let us know what you think. It seems that the "best" setup would be increasing camber at the front and the 034 or Neuspeed setup (both provide the same stiffness) to get the desired effect. Good luck either way and hope you find what you like the best.
 

Mostic

Go Kart Champion
I had the Hotchiks 27mm F&R in my previous MKV and it was day and night different. I had them with Koni yellow sport kit and many other suspension modifications. I enjoyed them a lot and even a friend of mine who purchased them from me after selling my MKV, he liked them a lot too.
Now, I am evaluating the H&R AWD kit F24mm / R26mm and the SuperPro AWD 26mm or 24mm kit.
 

Mostic

Go Kart Champion
H&R sway bars arrived and installed the rear one









The handling differences are noticeable once installed the rear sway bar and drive for a while, simply is like you were walking and slipping without wearing shoes and you wears the right shoes.

the real problem I have is that the front sway bar came without the installation brackets so I have to remove it from the OEM bar and install it to the H&R one which I see something really bad! Any idea from where to buy the front sway brackets?
 

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
My front Eibach bar uses the stock brackets. It’s works perfectly fine, no issues.
 
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