The Cleanest GTI? A Documentary by AutoLavish of Michigan

[Hilfloskind]

My buddy owns a detailing shop and he has about 4 guys he works with. He normally charges $350+ for a laundry list of detailing (wash,clay,polish,sealant,wax,interior,wheels,etc), but since I'm good friends with him he offered me to do it for $200. Do you think that it is worth it for me to pay him to do it or should I learn to do this myself?

It's worth learning if you want to keep your car(s) looking their best. Paying for it is great if you don't have the time or motivation to do it yourself regularly. It is a reward in and of itself to do your own work, IMHO.

 

[Larry70454]

It's worth learning if you want to keep your car(s) looking their best. Paying for it is great if you don't have the time or motivation to do it yourself regularly. It is a reward in and of itself to do your own work, IMHO.

I've been learning slowly, sometimes it seems like when I do something I mess up. It's nice to look at my car in the parking lot shining when every other car is completely dirty

 

[MuttGrunt]

My buddy owns a detailing shop and he has about 4 guys he works with. He normally charges $350+ for a laundry list of detailing (wash,clay,polish,sealant,wax,interior,wheels,etc), but since I'm good friends with him he offered me to do it for $200. Do you think that it is worth it for me to pay him to do it or should I learn to do this myself?

I can't tell you what you should do with your money, nor can anyone else. What is and is not worth your money can be hard to decide.
No offense meant toward your buddy, but I don't know him or the work he does. For me, no price is worth shoddy work. I'm the type that would pay $350 if it meant I was magically promised to never get a scratch or swirl from anyone over the next year.

As far as learning to do things yourself; I feel all enthusiasts should have a good idea of how to take proper care of their cars. This doesn't mean you need to know how to machine polish, but basic maintenance is important. I could do everything to your car possible and have it looking better than any car on the planet, but if you don't know how to properly wash it with two buckets and Grit Guards, and you don't have good and clean microfiber towels, and other basic equipment and know-how, the work I do and the condition of the vehicle will only last a few months at best.
Take care of it correctly, a full year down the road the car will still outstanding.


If you choose to outsource detailing work, make sure you're getting the type of work you can't easily do yourself or the type of work you don't want to do yourself, make sure it is being done in a safe manner, and make sure you're prepared to make it last.

It's worth learning if you want to keep your car(s) looking their best. Paying for it is great if you don't have the time or motivation to do it yourself regularly. It is a reward in and of itself to do your own work, IMHO.

Great perspective.

 

[MuttGrunt]

I've been learning slowly, sometimes it seems like when I do something I mess up. It's nice to look at my car in the parking lot shining when every other car is completely dirty

Understandable, and take into account that's part of learning. I can tell you about my first time claying my car, and how it took my a couple of hours. I've now done it enough that I'm much more efficient and it takes a fraction of the time. The same can be said with proper washing techniques, waxing, and other detailing topics.
The more you do them, the better you'll get.

At the same time, I have quite a few repeat clients that are very good, thorough, and experienced with detailing their own vehicles, but choose to outsource certain types of work they don't want to spend the time to do, or want to make sure paint thickness and other safety based issues are accounted for.

 

[Larry70454]

You probably would have laughed if you saw my first clay :/

 

[Djmikeyd]

TOOOOOOO..............MUCH............PERFECTTTTTT.............!1!!11

 

[andy_uranium]

X2

When you say you don't understand people saying these kinds of things, don't forget that many drivers think only in terms of clean or unclean. Many don't think in terms of clarity and the finer details behind detailing.

I saw this car 7 months after this job was one and it still looked great! Testament to fine work and an owner caring for it properly.

 

[E-Dawg]

Beautiful! But man, hitting the first rainstorm after all that would suck!

 

[gtipwnz]

Can you go into detail about the paint thickness thing? That's one aspect of detailing that I'm not familiar with. When you measure it what are you looking for? If you get a number or reading that you're not happy with, what steps do you take to correct it? Why are you concerned with paint thickness to being with? :thumbsup: Great job, by the way. I was floored when I first browsed through this thread.

 

[MuttGrunt]

Can you go into detail about the paint thickness thing? That's one aspect of detailing that I'm not familiar with. When you measure it what are you looking for? If you get a number or reading that you're not happy with, what steps do you take to correct it? Why are you concerned with paint thickness to being with? :thumbsup: Great job, by the way. I was floored when I first browsed through this thread.

I'd give you a hug if I could.

This is one of the best questions I've been asked across multiple boards recently, and while some might understand it already, I'm sure some other owners have the same question.

Measuring the thickness of the paint gives us an idea of the consistency of the finish we're working with. We're not looking for all the numbers to be generally the same, but rather we're looking for inconsistencies that could potentially cause problems.
We measure in microns (thousandth's of a millimeter) so even ultra precise multi-million dollar robots the paint cars will usually have a change of 5-15 microns across a panel. This is normal and isn't what we're looking for.
Further, these devices only work on metal panels, and are only measuring the total thickness of the paint. Your steel door, for example, has e-coat (rust protecton), primer sealer (for better adhesion of the next layer / uniform color), base-coat (color layer), and clear-coat (gloss / shine and durability). We're only polishing the clear-coat, which is somewhere between 40-60% of the total thickness of all layers typically. Because you're not measuring the individual clear-coat layer, you're just looking for an idea of the paints over-all health.

A certain area on the car might have a deeper or more significant looking scratch. Additional polishing means you're removing additional clear-coat. There's a balance between removing defects, and leaving the paint healthy enough for future polishing sessions. The way we work is to not just leave enough clear-coat for an additional polishing session or two, but potentially two+ dozen more polishing sessions depending on many different factors. Bigger correction jobs usually result in 2-5 microns of clear being removed (most often only 2 or 3 microns though).

For an example of the type of change we're looking for, I offer this example from a 600+ hp sapphire black SL55 AMG we worked on.

Here is the driver's side rear fender:

And here is 3 or 4 inches away on the driver's side door:

We quickly realized the fender had been repainted (as had many other areas) and was over twice as thick as other areas while the OEM paint was quite thin
Without taking readings, you might incorrectly assume both panels were very similar.

Here are two more readings from the same car:

The way you might want someone to exercise additional caution if they ran into this on your car is the way we work as well. If a panel is thin, you have concrete evidence for yourself and the owner as to why it might be best to not go after a couple remaining scratches.


In the end, we were less interested in perfection of the OEM panel as we were in making a positive difference while preserving those sections of clear-coat for the future. The result was still shocking and the owner was excite.

 

[gtipwnz]

Beautiful! Wish I had that kind of coin :laugh: How many micrometers does a typical polish session remove? I'm just talking about maybe some really light swirling, or the type of polishing you'd do just as a matter of course. I've had a couple panels repainted and would maybe be interested in taking these readings. When a panel gets too thin, would the next course of action be a respray?

 

[Halvie]

Odd question, but how do you guys determine what polish to go with.

I read through most of DetailersDomain's write ups, and I don't see the difference in paint on cars that get 105 w/ surbuf, D300 MF, Menzerna SIP, or just Final Finsh/Super Finish.

I know you are supposed to use the least aggressive polish that will get the job done. Do you just try out something mild first, and then keep going up until you get the paint where you want it?

 

[MuttGrunt]

Beautiful! Wish I had that kind of coin :laugh: How many micrometers does a typical polish session remove? I'm just talking about maybe some really light swirling, or the type of polishing you'd do just as a matter of course. I've had a couple panels repainted and would maybe be interested in taking these readings. When a panel gets too thin, would the next course of action be a respray?

Typical for me? Or typical for an owner working on his or her own vehicle?

For me, we're normally doing big correction work that'll remove somewhere between 2-5 microns (usually just 2-3 though) of clear-coat. Maintaining your own vehicle correctly means that once you get your baby looking proper and wash her correctly, the swirls and light scratches will be so shallow that you'll only need a finishing polish step to remove them, or a medium polish at worst. This mean you're likely removing less than 1 micron.
I've done smaller jobs on certain well maintained vehicles that only needed slight gloss enhancement / very light swirl removal. When this happens, you're removing so little material that you can't even read a difference.

If a panel is too thin and any polishing would mean going through the clear, a respray is the only solution. This is one of the reasons it's so important to properly care for your car from the start, and why it's important to not be in a position that you need massive correction once a year.

Odd question, but how do you guys determine what polish to go with.

I read through most of DetailersDomain's write ups, and I don't see the difference in paint on cars that get 105 w/ surbuf, D300 MF, Menzerna SIP, or just Final Finsh/Super Finish.

I know you are supposed to use the least aggressive polish that will get the job done. Do you just try out something mild first, and then keep going up until you get the paint where you want it?

Test sections! You'll see detailers all over doing test sections, and even if they don't show pics of this step, it's pretty much being done. Different cars have different hardness clear-coats, so they can respond in a very different matter to polish+pad+machine+speed+pressure.
When you look through some of the work guys like Phil from Detailers Domain are putting out, you'll notice that despite them potentially using different polishes, pads, and even machines, the results are always spectacular. The end goal is pretty much always the same, but sometimes the tools to get there change based off need and what works.

We always try something mild when we're unsure of the clear's hardness. You can always try something more aggressive if it's not working.

 

[Mille170]

Can you go into detail at all about how to remove the fog housings. I want to get a better tint job on them much like you guys did, but I figured I had to remove the bumper. How are they held in place from the back?

Thanks!

 

[gtipwnz]

Would using a light polish like Klasse AIO twice a year be a bad idea then? Initially I was using the Wolfgang polish, and that seemed to work pretty well, but I only needed that once.