Big Turbo Discussion Thread #2

[kern417]

power bleeder

i know i just don't have one

Kern whats your est whp?

300whp

It's been running for like 5 months.

I blew up my clutch recently and am down currently because of that, but i drove it to sowo this year. Sorting out fueling now. Haven't dynod recently, but mid high 400s low 500s should be very easy. I did 360 on my last big turbo kit (HTA 2873r on a APR kit)

he wouldn't know. he wasn't there

I think I gained about 500 rpm of spool time with the Truboost quick spool settings. I was spooling around 3500-3700 and now I can't spool at anything under 4000 after disabling it

same. on the eboost2 i turned the crack pressure up to 13psi and spool is super quick. you can feel it shoot up and then taper to 17.

I have never in my life seen or heard anything about a TSI throwing a rod. I think this notion that the community cries that you need need need to build your motor to go past 400whp is super played up. Same thing goes for the FSI motor. Everybody says the world will end if you don't have rods past 350wtq and yet I have only seen one post of a rod ever bending. I think the fear is all a bit played up.

Just a reminder:
1. the 400whp assumption came from apr. they said they never bent a rod but that's what their engineering team determined. this was before they even sold rods.
2. fsi build for more power/dropped compression ratio too, and it doesn't make much sense to do that without upgrading rods as well. plus their rods are weaker.
3. there's a lot more than a number that will cause damage, like we all know. primarily torque onset.

 

[U-20T]

3. there's a lot more than a number that will cause damage, like we all know. primarily torque onset.

His Tq is really late which could be why he is ok even now

 

[Sebastian89]

I'm going to post this on both BT threads...

Seems like I am going to source a second motor and put my rods and such in that one over the next couple months. BUT...

I am going to blow mine up. I am going to see how much power, boost, etc. we can push through these rods for as long as possible. I will have my spare motor sitting at my shop while this happens. Hopefully I can put to rest if the limit really is/was 400.

Follow me, I can show you my ways....:lol:
As long as you don't mind a mess you have to clean up, go for it. And carry an extinguisher haha

 

[HYDE161]

Just a reminder:
1. the 400whp assumption came from apr. they said they never bent a rod but that's what their engineering team determined. this was before they even sold rods.
2. fsi build for more power/dropped compression ratio too, and it doesn't make much sense to do that without upgrading rods as well. plus their rods are weaker.
3. there's a lot more than a number that will cause damage, like we all know. primarily torque onset.

Here was one of the statements which compares the rods:
http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?15278-Boost-levels-and-stages&p=325791&viewfull=1#post325791

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Arin@APR and I work at our US office with our main engineering team.

Our Stage 3 turbocharger system does not break rods on the 2.0 TSI. We've spent years pushing higher horsepower levels through our stage 3+ turbocharger systems the stock rods without failure. Furthermore the TSI rods are FAR stronger than the older FSI rods (BPY, AXX, BWA). Here's an image of the rods for comparison (see below). The FSI rods were thinner and hollow in the center (rifle drilled). Typically failed FSI rods would split down the center and were not capable of taking anywhere near the abuse the TSI rods would see. To this date, I've yet to see a TSI rod fail internally at any power level. Furthermore I'm only aware of failed TSI rods due to oil starvation on the TSI platform, and not as a result of power at stage 3.

 

[Don®]

Look at the size and design difference between the two.
The TSI rod is far more stronger than the FSI, and I'd think the TSI would come close to the strength of a forged after-market rod.

Note that the TSI rod is not a H-beam design but an I-beam, a good design.
Order of design strength: Pauter design (+) > I-beam > H-beam

 

[vwgti2.0t]

Here was one of the statements which compares the rods:
http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?15278-Boost-levels-and-stages&p=325791&viewfull=1#post325791

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Arin@APR and I work at our US office with our main engineering team.

Our Stage 3 turbocharger system does not break rods on the 2.0 TSI. We've spent years pushing higher horsepower levels through our stage 3+ turbocharger systems the stock rods without failure. Furthermore the TSI rods are FAR stronger than the older FSI rods (BPY, AXX, BWA). Here's an image of the rods for comparison (see below). The FSI rods were thinner and hollow in the center (rifle drilled). Typically failed FSI rods would split down the center and were not capable of taking anywhere near the abuse the TSI rods would see. To this date, I've yet to see a TSI rod fail internally at any power level. Furthermore I'm only aware of failed TSI rods due to oil starvation on the TSI platform, and not as a result of power at stage 3.

I'm curious to see what RJ finds if his even break. Mine have over 96k miles of abuse and even now with a GT30 on 25psi and are holding up fine. Not to mention, I'm on a MBC so the boost spike immediately. I'm only installing rods because I have them at this point.

 

[RGTI13]

His Tq is really late which could be why he is ok even now

Yeah, this is the sole reason that I haven't tuned the car for earlier torque onset. It might be key to my longevity.

And honestly, it doesn't really matter because I just start my races at 5k :thumbsup:

 

[RGTI13]

Throwing the car on the dyno today to see if the lines are more smooth because of the new fueling.

 

[james9120]

Should be interesting!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[GTR_Killer]

Yes^ very interested!

 

[drepai]

So after going through what seemed like every employee at turbosmart we finally got the eboost to work the way I want. They suggested using the cor function which is generally used to correct boost drop off from one rpm point to another. I set sp (duty cycle) to 45 and told it to start correcting at 4600 rpm and finish at 5100 rpm. Correction factor is 80% so sp went up to 81 by 5100rpm and carried out flat from that point on. The dyno graph I posted was with sp set to 80.

Cor worked because unlike the rsp function it gradually changes duty cycle instead of just jumping, the boost curve now looks like a line instead of a step when it ramps up to full duty cycle. Feels very smooth on the street and the surging I was having is completely gone.

Anyways here's a 4th gear pull I did last night to test it. Meat of the powerband is ~92 - 128 mph when I let off.

Eboost is no longer for sale


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srEzERqLlkI

 

[james9120]

So after going through what seemed like every employee at turbosmart we finally got the eboost to work the way I want. They suggested using the cor function which is generally used to correct boost drop off from one rpm point to another. I set sp (duty cycle) to 45 and told it to start correcting at 4600 rpm and finish at 5100 rpm. Correction factor is 80% so sp went up to 81 by 5100rpm and carried out flat from that point on. The dyno graph I posted was with sp set to 80.

Cor worked because unlike the rsp function it gradually changes duty cycle instead of just jumping, the boost curve now looks like a line instead of a step when it ramps up to full duty cycle. Feels very smooth on the street and the surging I was having is completely gone.

Anyways here's a 4th gear pull I did last night to test it. Meat of the powerband is ~92 - 128 mph when I let off.

Eboost is no longer for sale


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=srEzERqLlkI

[emoji7] boost is so smooth


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kern417]

Here was one of the statements which compares the rods:
http://www.vwgolf.net.au/showthread.php?15278-Boost-levels-and-stages&p=325791&viewfull=1#post325791

Allow me to introduce myself. I'm Arin@APR and I work at our US office with our main engineering team.

Our Stage 3 turbocharger system does not break rods on the 2.0 TSI. We've spent years pushing higher horsepower levels through our stage 3+ turbocharger systems the stock rods without failure. Furthermore the TSI rods are FAR stronger than the older FSI rods (BPY, AXX, BWA). Here's an image of the rods for comparison (see below). The FSI rods were thinner and hollow in the center (rifle drilled). Typically failed FSI rods would split down the center and were not capable of taking anywhere near the abuse the TSI rods would see. To this date, I've yet to see a TSI rod fail internally at any power level. Furthermore I'm only aware of failed TSI rods due to oil starvation on the TSI platform, and not as a result of power at stage 3.

yeah, but stuff like this is where speculation came from

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpost.php?p=351707&postcount=19

We have a blanket policy of not recommending use of 100 on stock rods with our stage 3 turbocharger systems.

and that was before stage 3+ came out. trying to blow up your car won't tell you everything, really. you need to do a stress study on them to know for sure. calculate a safety factor, etc. i know a guy that ran 35psi through a stock evo turbo and told everyone how reliable and fast his car was. 2 years later the turbo blew. it's up to you if you consider that sort of performance to be reliable or not.

 

[GTR_Killer]

Do you have the gas pedal buried the whole time?

 

[drepai]

Do you have the gas pedal buried the whole time?

yup. can't make it surge even if I wanted to.