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Official Timing Chain Tensioner failure thread

KDOG1

Ready to race!
I just noticed a rattle this morning, didn't notice on start up, although il be looking now, noticed walking past my engine running, it was something other than just the engine running.. heres a video hopefully you can hear it too, it is very distinguished right in the beginning of the video the clicking type sound and let me know what you think, thanks in advance. 2010 gti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1c7jvePDFw
 

GibbyGTI

Passed Driver's Ed
I just noticed a rattle this morning, didn't notice on start up, although il be looking now, noticed walking past my engine running, it was something other than just the engine running.. heres a video hopefully you can hear it too, it is very distinguished right in the beginning of the video the clicking type sound and let me know what you think, thanks in advance. 2010 gti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1c7jvePDFw

Purge valve clicking; it's normal.
 

MrFancypants

Autocross Champion
i'm in the same boat...

debating on whether to trade the car in or get it fixed. i have a 2010 with 106k+ miles and it has been flawless (aside from the carbon on the intake valves and a couple warranty issues that were taken care of). i feel like i have a unicorn Gti. No water pump issues, no rattles, no clutch issues, etc. :knocksonwood:

I spoke with a service adviser today that mentioned that typical timing chain failures came with owners not using VW-spec oil and/or going the typical 10k miles between oil changes. that made me feel a little better since i only use dealer castrol oil and i change it every 5-6k miles (original owner).

I was presented with the same decision as you. I'm the original owner of a reliable unicorn that I've put a lot of miles on.

I love the car so I chose to spend the money on it. The dealership I took it to didn't report any other issues with chain stretch, and in the past they've been very meticulous about noting any problems they've noticed.

At about 200k I'll probably drop it off somewhere and have the whole chain assembly replaced.
 

Pooley

Ready to race!
I was presented with the same decision as you. I'm the original owner of a reliable unicorn that I've put a lot of miles on.

I love the car so I chose to spend the money on it. The dealership I took it to didn't report any other issues with chain stretch, and in the past they've been very meticulous about noting any problems they've noticed.

At about 200k I'll probably drop it off somewhere and have the whole chain assembly replaced.

I changed the tensioner on my 2011 at 108kmi January of last year. Original water pump failed around 126kmi, noticed some coolant streaming on my garage floor but caught it before the level in my expansion tank even dropped much. Did a carbon cleaning around same time as the tensioner last year. Other than a coil pack failing after going Stage 2 at 43kmi I think the water pump at 126kmi may have been the only truly "required" service repair my car has needed. Any other repairs were preventive maintenance, mods, or expected due to mileage. I do most of the labor on my car myself at home so I figure it's not worth getting rid of a car that I feel confident working on and own outright. I've been hearing what sounds like timing chain rattle lately so I've ordered all the parts to change the chains, guides, and tensioners with the plan of getting it done sometime this week. It would make sense if my chain is stretched at the current mileage considering it's been tuned since around 24kmi or so and the typical life expectancy of the chain is supposedly 150kmi on a stock engine. I had enough confidence in my engine that I installed a k04 on it past 100kmi. I have used Motul oil for most of the 5 years I've owned it (bought early 2012 at 9kmi) and usually change every 6kmi plus a fresh oil filter. The car has never lost more than a quart between oil changes and that seemed to even be a fluke since it's normally less than half a quart down over 6kmi on average if any lost at all.

My friend had the tensioner fail on his '13.5 Jetta GLI which had the newer generation of our engine with the exhaust manifold cast into the head. His had 100kmi of mainly highway use and went without warning last Summer. Ended up costing over $7k to repair due to requiring a used replacement engine and even a used turbo due to damage, so I don't know how much confidence I'd put on using production date and latest revision of tensioner as a basis to avoid installing a new tensioner. It seems maintaining proper oil levels, using quality oil, and keeping that oil clean are key to maintaining pressure in the tensioner and taking stress off of the mechanism inside the tensioner that prevents the tensioner from collapsing under load. My next door neighbor lost his '09 GTI TSI last Fall at 80kmi due to tensioner failure and I'm sure that his lax oil change schedule and allowing Jiffy Lube to handle his oil changes contributed to the failure. Who knows what type of oil he was running.
 

Corradoluvher

Ready to race!
My had a clicking noise took the car to my mechanic he said could be timing chain tensioner. So i took the car to the dealer they found the cam Cambridge screen broke off and got stuck and wouldnt allow the oil to get by. Lucky didnt damage the engine. Should i ask them to replace the timing chaim tensioner? How much extra work will it be?
 

Polo2.0T

New member
Should I change just the top left tensioner, or both tensioners and the chains?

Hello to everyone.

Should I change just the top left tensioner, or both tensioners and the chains?

I decided to preventively replace the upper left tensioner. One of the local places told me that since I am at it, I should go ahead and change both tensioners and the chains. The price they quoted me is just a little more then replacing just the faulty top left one.

Has anyone done this service in the Salt Lake City area? if so where?

Any comments are appreciated.
 

GTIKage

New member
Here's another cautionary tale...

I bought a 2010 MK6 GTI with 108,500 miles (CCTA 2.0 L 147kW engine; DSG gearbox) at the beginning of May (2017). In GREAT shape. My mechanic said it had the wear of a 2014-2015. All parts tight, no visible leaks, oil pristine clean, ran great, etc. almost no wear anywhere - body or interior. Fun car to drive. (Out accelerates my son's Hyndai Toscani ed. V6 Tiburon!) Every once in a while, I heard a "dieselly" noise on startup. Not much, and not too metallic sounding. I've read the threads on the tensioner issue, and was concerned; but not to worried...

Three weeks and at about 109,000 miles, I pulled into Walmart after driving home from work (about 40 min), and the car started bucking at idle when I parked it. No prior warning of a problem. Went right home w/o shutting it off. Tried to start it about 15 min later, and it bucked and made noisy clacking noises and would not start. After revving it, I got it started and had a friend read the error codes. About 15 of them. The main one one was for timing and misfires (P011 or something). Drove it to my mechanic. He didn't have the tools so towed it to VW dealer.

They confirmed a timing belt tensioner issue. Quoted me $4600 to repair it. Luckily no bent valves. Told them about the SB VW has on this issue. They were able to knock the price down to $3800 depending on what they found when they got into it, with the hope that if the bridge screen was intact, I could save $800 on a camshaft replacement. No such luck. Screen missing. VW recommends intake camshaft replacement in that case. All told: camshaft timing chain, chain tensioner (06K), chain rails, intake camshaft, chain adjuster, oil change. Mechanic did confirm the original chain had stretched. The dealer was very willing to work with me to extent they could. They even loaned me a 2017 Jetta SE while mine was in the shop. (Nice car - only 890 miles on it!) All told $4011. All the more painful as I hadn't had the car long enough to have even researched the issue much. I do like the 12k, 1 yr warranty, though.

Keep in mind - the car was maintained as meticulously as possible from what I've seen (I don't have the maintenance records; but even the paint job looks like it was just off the showroom floor.) There was no indication of sludge or dirt in the oil, either. So I'm not sure the oil is really part of the failure mode. At the most - it could hasten the issue if you don't change it regularly, I suppose. (I agree - 10K oil changes don't make much sense to me, even though VW insists that is normal and perfectly OK...)

Had a scare not 24 hrs after getting the car back last week. Stopped to update my mechanic on the issue, and when I started it up, I got the loud rattle/shake and it wouldn't start. Started it again, and no problem. Took it to VW next day - no error codes, and car sounded just fine to them. The mechanic was worried about it so kept it for a while to see if the issue showed up again. Nothing. In the past week - car still fine. Best guess - just an anomaly. So fingers crossed.

Bottom line - this can occur to anyone regardless of how car is maintained, and at any mileage. If you have a car on the SB target list - go direct, do not walk, do not pass Go, do not collect $200, and have the chain tensioner replaced as preventive maintenance. It is a lot cheaper than fixing it after a failure. I was lucky. I didn't have to replace the engine; but $4000 after literally just spending 10K on buying it? Very painful. Not a happy camper. I will be writing VWoA to see what they say. Will also see if there is a class action suit I can get in on. This really should have been a recall. Or at least VW picking up 50% or so of the costs...

Makes it difficult to justify keeping the car, though I will. At least for now. Made for a hell of a week, though... <sigh>
 

DasAuto12

Passed Driver's Ed
Hey guys, I am encountering the rattle sound during cold start ups and through research am thinking it might be the timing chain tensioner issue. I went to the dealership cause the check engine light came on and they 'suspected' that it was carbon build up. But the check engine light went away today by itself and the engine rattle is still present. I was wondering if anyone here had the check engine light turn on as a result of this timing chain issue?
 

BudgetPhoenix

Autocross Champion
Here's another cautionary tale...

I bought a 2010 MK6 GTI with 108,500 miles (CCTA 2.0 L 147kW engine; DSG gearbox) at the beginning of May (2017). In GREAT shape. My mechanic said it had the wear of a 2014-2015. All parts tight, no visible leaks, oil pristine clean, ran great, etc. almost no wear anywhere - body or interior. Fun car to drive. (Out accelerates my son's Hyndai Toscani ed. V6 Tiburon!) Every once in a while, I heard a "dieselly" noise on startup. Not much, and not too metallic sounding. I've read the threads on the tensioner issue, and was concerned; but not to worried...

Three weeks and at about 109,000 miles, I pulled into Walmart after driving home from work (about 40 min), and the car started bucking at idle when I parked it. No prior warning of a problem. Went right home w/o shutting it off. Tried to start it about 15 min later, and it bucked and made noisy clacking noises and would not start. After revving it, I got it started and had a friend read the error codes. About 15 of them. The main one one was for timing and misfires (P011 or something). Drove it to my mechanic. He didn't have the tools so towed it to VW dealer.

They confirmed a timing belt tensioner issue. Quoted me $4600 to repair it. Luckily no bent valves. Told them about the SB VW has on this issue. They were able to knock the price down to $3800 depending on what they found when they got into it, with the hope that if the bridge screen was intact, I could save $800 on a camshaft replacement. No such luck. Screen missing. VW recommends intake camshaft replacement in that case. All told: camshaft timing chain, chain tensioner (06K), chain rails, intake camshaft, chain adjuster, oil change. Mechanic did confirm the original chain had stretched. The dealer was very willing to work with me to extent they could. They even loaned me a 2017 Jetta SE while mine was in the shop. (Nice car - only 890 miles on it!) All told $4011. All the more painful as I hadn't had the car long enough to have even researched the issue much. I do like the 12k, 1 yr warranty, though.

<sigh>


Ive heard of the camshaft screen blowing out on many cars and not being a problem. I think I even read of a shop that just leaves the screen out when doing a timing job
 

Pooley

Ready to race!
Ive heard of the camshaft screen blowing out on many cars and not being a problem. I think I even read of a shop that just leaves the screen out when doing a timing job

I just completed changing my cam and balance shaft chains plus all but one of the chain guides at 127kmi on Friday. The cam bridge screen was blown out on mine and I chose to just remove the last remaining bits and not buy a new cam bridge. I actually found the missing screen stuck against the head which was a miracle considering how tiny it is and how it easily could've disappeared into the engine when the cam bridge was removed. I have heard that the screen blows out just about every time on these engines and that it's fine without it so I chose to leave it off rather than spend a bunch of money on a new one that will just blow out as well and lodge itself into an oil passage and kill the engine.

So, about my chain replacement- When I pulled the upper timing cover off I noticed that my timing chain wasn't sitting flat against the top of the intake cam. If I pushed down on the chain on top of the intake cam it would lift off the exhaust cam, but the special dark chain links were on their cam marks. I had the cam locking tools and got everything locked down. When it came time to install the new chain it wouldn't reach both cam marks even in a straight line with the middle chain guide removed. I had to use a wrench on the back side of the exhaust cam to move the gear toward the intake cam to get the chain on its marks. An online VW workshop manual gave factory specs for distance from the middle guide to intake cam mark and also distance between both cam marks and I was spot-on with the new chain and by only moving the exhaust cam (didn't take measurements with old chain installed since I didn't realize it was going to be so far off). Due to chain stretch I had to remove the cam lock for the exhaust cam and re-install one tooth over to allow the dark links to reach the mark. I wasn't able to change the balance shaft tensioner since the passenger side drive axle was in the way and there isn't clearance to use anything other than a socket due to the shape of the engine block and the very thin bolt head of the tensioner. The balance shaft tensioner is just a spring that gets oil fed through the center of it to lube the chain and has no locking mechanism anyway so wasn't a big deal using the old one. Oil runs through the balance shaft tensioner, out the tip and through a hole in the chain guide. I also had an issue where the top-sided chain guide for the balance shaft tensioner that I got as part of the chain kit from DAP didn't fit due to the mounting holes not lining up. Not sure what happened there, but the old guide was like new, just discolored from heated oil. The car runs great now and I notice a definite improvement in response below 2500 rpm, smoother idle, and it pulls harder when you get on it. My car ran fine before but was quieter than it used to be on full throttle and lagged more at low rpm. Very happy with the end result even though the parts certainly weren't cheap. Luckily I did all of the labor at home. If I find the time I will create a new post that includes links to all of the parts and special tools required plus the photos I took with my phone along the way. Changing the chains obviously adds cost but may be worth it to anyone already opening things up with higher miles.
 

GibbyGTI

Passed Driver's Ed
 

SoWalGTI

Autocross Champion
I just completed changing my cam and balance shaft chains plus all but one of the chain guides at 127kmi on Friday. The cam bridge screen was blown out on mine and I chose to just remove the last remaining bits and not buy a new cam bridge. I actually found the missing screen stuck against the head which was a miracle considering how tiny it is and how it easily could've disappeared into the engine when the cam bridge was removed. I have heard that the screen blows out just about every time on these engines and that it's fine without it so I chose to leave it off rather than spend a bunch of money on a new one that will just blow out as well and lodge itself into an oil passage and kill the engine.

So, about my chain replacement- When I pulled the upper timing cover off I noticed that my timing chain wasn't sitting flat against the top of the intake cam. If I pushed down on the chain on top of the intake cam it would lift off the exhaust cam, but the special dark chain links were on their cam marks. I had the cam locking tools and got everything locked down. When it came time to install the new chain it wouldn't reach both cam marks even in a straight line with the middle chain guide removed. I had to use a wrench on the back side of the exhaust cam to move the gear toward the intake cam to get the chain on its marks. An online VW workshop manual gave factory specs for distance from the middle guide to intake cam mark and also distance between both cam marks and I was spot-on with the new chain and by only moving the exhaust cam (didn't take measurements with old chain installed since I didn't realize it was going to be so far off). Due to chain stretch I had to remove the cam lock for the exhaust cam and re-install one tooth over to allow the dark links to reach the mark. I wasn't able to change the balance shaft tensioner since the passenger side drive axle was in the way and there isn't clearance to use anything other than a socket due to the shape of the engine block and the very thin bolt head of the tensioner. The balance shaft tensioner is just a spring that gets oil fed through the center of it to lube the chain and has no locking mechanism anyway so wasn't a big deal using the old one. Oil runs through the balance shaft tensioner, out the tip and through a hole in the chain guide. I also had an issue where the top-sided chain guide for the balance shaft tensioner that I got as part of the chain kit from DAP didn't fit due to the mounting holes not lining up. Not sure what happened there, but the old guide was like new, just discolored from heated oil. The car runs great now and I notice a definite improvement in response below 2500 rpm, smoother idle, and it pulls harder when you get on it. My car ran fine before but was quieter than it used to be on full throttle and lagged more at low rpm. Very happy with the end result even though the parts certainly weren't cheap. Luckily I did all of the labor at home. If I find the time I will create a new post that includes links to all of the parts and special tools required plus the photos I took with my phone along the way. Changing the chains obviously adds cost but may be worth it to anyone already opening things up with higher miles.

I'd be super interested in this write up! I think you'd be helping a lot of DIY'ers with it.
 

Tony48

Go Kart Champion
I'd be super interested in this write up! I think you'd be helping a lot of DIY'ers with it.

I'm also very interested in seeing a writeup/pictures. I plan on tackling the whole deal (chains/tensioners/guides) this fall in preparation for going K04. I've got a decent handle on what the job entails from the online service manuals but seeing some pictures and getting feedback from someone who's completed the job would be very helpful.
 

jay745

What Would Glenn Danzig Do
I'm also very interested in seeing a writeup/pictures. I plan on tackling the whole deal (chains/tensioners/guides) this fall in preparation for going K04. I've got a decent handle on what the job entails from the online service manuals but seeing some pictures and getting feedback from someone who's completed the job would be very helpful.

I've done a few of these, I'll try to get some more detailed photos and document the process along the way next time.
 
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